View topic - New Article: Stillers-Giants Postgame Analysis and Grades

[StillMill Profile]

http://www.stillers.com/articles/2307.aspx has been posted by Still Mill at Stillers.com.

[Zorro Profile]

Somehow, neither Hartwig nor Stapleton is capable of long snapping

Somehow neither could anyone else on the roster.

Some centers like Mike Webster were also capable long snappers; however, this was pure coincidence.

If you knew ANYTHING about long snapping, you would know that being a center and being able to long snap are 2 completely different skills.

[StillMill Profile]

Somehow, neither Hartwig nor Stapleton is capable of long snapping

Somehow neither could anyone else on the roster.

Some centers like Mike Webster were also capable long snappers; however, this was pure coincidence.

If you knew ANYTHING about long snapping, you would know that being a center and being able to long snap are 2 completely different skills.

Somehow, you're a fuking idiot.

While being a center in the NFL does not AUTOMATICALLY mean a person can long-snap, it sure as shit gives you a vast ADVANTAGE over just about everyone ELSE on the roster. For starters, centers MUST be able to snap in the SG formation. Secondly, centers are USED to having the ball in their hands EVERY SINGLE DAY at practice. It's not a stretch for a CENTER in the NFL to conduct a half-decent long-snap, just as it isn't a stretch to ask a catcher to fill in at 1B due to injury. Let's see -- who would you like to have snapping in the 4Q of a tight game -- Hartwig, the starting center who SNAPS the ball all the time in the SG formation, or James Harrison, who has NEVER, EVER long-snapped in a football game, even at the high school level.

Shove your long snap up your ass, Whorro.

[Homer J Profile]

Yawn.

More mindless prattle about LeBeau. Don't mention that in the fourth quarter, Taylor was knocked out of the game and got off the mat to play, and Ryan Clark - who made that great hit - knocked himself out of the game and could not return.
Don't mention that pathetic Tyrone Carter was in there, and couldn't rotate over to help Gay on the deep sideline pass.

Don't mention that the defense had been out there the majority of the game -- an extremely physical game -- and gave up no touchdowns until they finally broke down in the fourth quarter with as many as three backup DB's in there at one time. Or that they did a helluva job stopping an outstanding offensive line and a running back bigger than most of them. The Giants ARE the Super Bowl champions, Mill, or doesn't that count?

You come in every week, Mill, with a preconceived notion that LeBeau is an overrated bum, and you pick and choose to prove your prejuduce.

Jesus H. Christ on Rollerstakes, LeBeau could walk on water, and you would write, "you see? I told you! The man can't swim!"

[Zorro Profile]

Somehow, neither Hartwig nor Stapleton is capable of long snapping

Somehow neither could anyone else on the roster.

Some centers like Mike Webster were also capable long snappers; however, this was pure coincidence.

If you knew ANYTHING about long snapping, you would know that being a center and being able to long snap are 2 completely different skills.

Somehow, you're a fuking idiot.

While being a center in the NFL does not AUTOMATICALLY mean a person can long-snap, it sure as shit gives you a vast ADVANTAGE over just about everyone ELSE on the roster. For starters, centers MUST be able to snap in the SG formation. Secondly, centers are USED to having the ball in their hands EVERY SINGLE DAY at practice. It's not a stretch for a CENTER in the NFL to conduct a half-decent long-snap, just as it isn't a stretch to ask a catcher to fill in at 1B due to injury. Let's see -- who would you like to have snapping in the 4Q of a tight game -- Hartwig, the starting center who SNAPS the ball all the time in the SG formation, or James Harrison, who has NEVER, EVER long-snapped in a football game, even at the high school level.

Shove your long snap up your ass, Whorro.

Thank you for proving my point. You didn't disappoint.

Have YOU ever long snapped? I don't have to ask because your last reply told me everything I needed to know.

There is nothing wrong with not knowing something about the game of football Mill. The sin is pretending you know and passing it off as legitimate analysis, and then having the arrogance to defend your ignorance when someone who actually knows what they are talking about gently tries to teach you something.

Being used to having a ball between your legs every day at practice has nothing to do with long snapping.
Snapping in the shotgun formation has nothing to do with long snapping.

I know this because I actually have long snapped both in high school and at the college level. Yes, unlike you Mill, I actually played college football. Long snapping is a very specific skill that has NOTHING to do with playing the center position. I played defensive back as my natural position.

To answer your question about who I would prefer taking over the long snapping duties last night when Warren went down... I would prefer to have the guy who won the job of #2 in a competitive audition during training camp. It is the special teams coach's responsibility to have this plan in place and find the best #2 of the guys on the roster.

Again, let me make this perfectly clear... playing center has NOTHING to do with being able to long snap. Playing center and long snapping are about as similar as playing QB and WR. Clear enough? I doubt it as you do tend to be a stubborn fuck incapable of admitting when you are wrong.

[StillMill Profile]

Thank you for proving my point. You didn't disappoint.

Have YOU ever long snapped? I don't have to ask because your last reply told me everything I needed to know.

There is nothing wrong with not knowing something about the game of football Mill. The sin is pretending you know and passing it off as legitimate analysis, and then having the arrogance to defend your ignorance when someone who actually knows what they are talking about gently tries to teach you something.

Being used to having a ball between your legs every day at practice has nothing to do with long snapping.
Snapping in the shotgun formation has nothing to do with long snapping.

I know this because I actually have long snapped both in high school and at the college level. Yes, unlike you Mill, I actually played college football. Long snapping is a very specific skill that has NOTHING to do with playing the center position. I played defensive back as my natural position.

To answer your question about who I would prefer taking over the long snapping duties last night when Warren went down... I would prefer to have the guy who won the job of #2 in a competitive audition during training camp. It is the special teams coach's responsibility to have this plan in place and find the best #2 of the guys on the roster.

Again, let me make this perfectly clear... playing center has NOTHING to do with being able to long snap. Playing center and long snapping are about as similar as playing QB and WR. Clear enough? I doubt it as you do tend to be a stubborn fuck incapable of admitting when you are wrong.

Thanks for proving my point. Thanks for showing that you're a complete fuking idiot. There was NO competition for long snapping at camp. Harrison has NEVER, ever snapped in a game. he NEVER snapped in a preseason game. You cannot have a "competition" if only ONE man gets playing time at a certain task.

As I ALREADY STATED in my article, OTHER options wer available. You DO NOT have to PUNT from a PUNT FORMATION. You CAN punt from a SG formation. The Steelers HAVE done this numerous times over the years, as has just about EVERY team in the NFL. The QB can do a quick pooch punt from the SG formation. But you're too fuking stupid to realize this, and instead you want to blather and drone on and on about how you were the almighty fuking long snapper of all time and about how great James "6 feet over the punter's head" Harrison MUST be as a long snapper. Shove your stupidfuk blathering up your ass, you stupid fuktard.

[Zorro Profile]

Thank you for proving my point. You didn't disappoint.

Have YOU ever long snapped? I don't have to ask because your last reply told me everything I needed to know.

There is nothing wrong with not knowing something about the game of football Mill. The sin is pretending you know and passing it off as legitimate analysis, and then having the arrogance to defend your ignorance when someone who actually knows what they are talking about gently tries to teach you something.

Being used to having a ball between your legs every day at practice has nothing to do with long snapping.
Snapping in the shotgun formation has nothing to do with long snapping.

I know this because I actually have long snapped both in high school and at the college level. Yes, unlike you Mill, I actually played college football. Long snapping is a very specific skill that has NOTHING to do with playing the center position. I played defensive back as my natural position.

To answer your question about who I would prefer taking over the long snapping duties last night when Warren went down... I would prefer to have the guy who won the job of #2 in a competitive audition during training camp. It is the special teams coach's responsibility to have this plan in place and find the best #2 of the guys on the roster.

Again, let me make this perfectly clear... playing center has NOTHING to do with being able to long snap. Playing center and long snapping are about as similar as playing QB and WR. Clear enough? I doubt it as you do tend to be a stubborn fuck incapable of admitting when you are wrong.

Thanks for proving my point. Thanks for showing that you're a complete fuking idiot. There was NO competition for long snapping at camp.

And you know this how?

Also, I NEVER said there was a competition. I was implying that if there had not been a competition, there should have been one. You don't deceide who is your backup long snapper after your #1 gets hurt. That said, I suspect there was some sort of brief try out for the #2 job sometime during camp. No one lets their backup long snapper perform the task in pre-season or a game.

As I ALREADY STATED in my article, OTHER options wer available. You DO NOT have to PUNT from a PUNT FORMATION. You CAN punt from a SG formation. The Steelers HAVE done this numerous times over the years, as has just about EVERY team in the NFL. The QB can do a quick pooch punt from the SG formation. But you're too fuking stupid to realize this, and instead you want to blather and drone on and on about how you were the almighty fuking long snapper of all time and about how great James "6 feet over the punter's head" Harrison MUST be as a long snapper. Shove your stupidfuk blathering up your ass, you stupid fuktard.

Yes there were other options as you pointed out; however, as always, the rearview mirror is always 20/20. Pouch punts from the shotgun usually aren't called when the other team knows its coming. They are done to catch the other team off guard and prevent a return. And no I wasn't "too fuking stupid to realize this". I just wasn't too fucking ignorant to insist a center should have been the long snapper.

I didn't blather that I was the almighter long snapper of all time. I just highlighted my personal experience to add actual credibility to my assertion that you don't know what you are talking about; however, most who read your analysis already knew that.

Please tell me where I said Harrison should have been the long snapper.

Just admit that you may have been wrong about insisting a center could have or should have been the backup long snapper and save some face.

[StillMill Profile]

Because your're a dumbass, let me summarize all of this:

1. A center SHOULD have been worked out DURING CAMP, and DURING a MEANINGLESS PRESEASON GAME, to get some work at long snapping, rather than tossing ALL of our eggs into the basket of a career LINEBACKER who hsa never, ever SNAPPED, or LONG SNAPPED, in a football game.

2. the Shotgun POOCH PUNT could have been executed REGARDLESS of whether NY was "expecting" it. On 4th down, Ben COULD, OBVIOUSLY, be passing the ball. NY's defense would have had to respect Ben as a QB. Ben could have quick-punted and knocked a rather ordinary 30-yard punt that might very well have been NOT fielded and thus downed by the coverage guys. MUCH BETTER, I'd say, than a guy who has NEVER snapped a football in a game, snapping to a HOBBLED PUNTER that could not move due to a hamstring injury, which resulted in a 2-pt. safety plus the ensuing punt.

but you're a dumfuk who is going to cling to your stupidassed fallacies and bullshit blather.

[zapunto Profile]

SPECIALS: I'm going to agree with StillMill on the snapping issue. I centered and long-snapped in semi-pro football; I was the backup center. I coach JV football and my backup center is also the snapper. But forget all that, because my football experience -- and yours -- should mean jack squat on this board. Let's check other well coached NFL teams. The Giants have Jay Alford (backup defensive tackle) as a kick snapper and Zak DeOssie as the punt snapper. Grey Ruegamer, the backup center, is the backup to both. The Pats - a well-coached team, cheaters or not - employ a full-time snapper, Lonie Paxton, he of the snow angel. Russ Hochstein, the backup center, is the backup long snapper. In fact, every decent team in the NFL, lists a 2nd or 3rd string long snapper. The Steelers don't, and obviously don't have one. Tomlin looks like a fool on this one.

Can someone explain to me why Najeh Davenport is returning kicks? He's slow and a poor east-west returner. Yesterday Tomlin didn't show me that he pays any more attention to specials than Cowher did.

OFFENSE: I am in the minority, but if I were Tomlin, Santonio Holmes would have played. Sorry. Holmes is clearly an idiot, but he was booked, not charged. Can we at least wait for the charge before deactivating him? To deactivate someone on Friday is crippling to a team; game plans are already in place. But I digress...even with Holmes, it looks like our offense is going to be a problem all year. Ward looks slow, Nate is useless on anything but a go route, and Sweed's release off the line looks putrid. Ugh. I thought Marvel Smith had a wretched game, and it was sickening to see Kiawanuka get sacks practically untouched or playing with Mewelde Moore pass blocking.

DEFENSE: Look, the Steelers have a very good defense and they played outstandingly in the red zone. A defense that plays that well in the red zone and uh, "less well" in open space clearly has speed issues and I'm getting sick of Farrior flailing on stops. The Boss missed tackle was ugly. Colbert needs to launch a search for a backup free safety; the game was really over when Tyrone fuking Carter took the field. I never thought I would miss Ryan Clark as much as I did watching him on the sideline with his arm in a sling..

[lga Profile]

I know you can't have subs for everything. However, I think this is Tomlin's responsibility. It's not as if he had to sub for the place kicker. The fact is the Head Coach must be prepared for anything, and I guess having Hartwig or whoever getting a few long snap reps in practice shouldn't be too much to ask. Tomlin's fault.

Also Tomlin's fault are the sacks. He needs to tell his QB what is good for the team. Holding on forever to the football and getting a sack is NOT good for the team. I know that is part of Ben's style, and a lot of people are in love with his magic under pressure, but taking a sack has become the norm and working his magic the exception. That is not good. Tomlin, as head coach, must COACH his QB into smart decision making. Or at least instruct the QB coach to teach the QB to get rid of the ball and not take a sack. I hate to say this, but Manning was barely touched because the Giants were prepared for the pass rush and clearly instructed him to throw an incomplete pass before taking a sack. I hope Ben learns from how Manning handled pressure.

Also Tomlin's fault is the fact that Bruce Arians is STILL the OC. How can Tomlin watch his inconsistent offense game after game and not do anything about it is beyond me. How can he approve of the play calling or of the game plan? I'm sorry, but Arians is not at fault here. The man can't help it if he isn't a brilliant OC. He was given the job by Tomlin. He would've been a fool not to take it. Tomlin is either too proud to admit he screwed up or (heaven forbid) is a moron and can't see that Arians is not up for the job.

Finally, I hate to disagree, but I find LeBeau one of the top ten coordinators in the NFL. I believe the defense plays with intensity and with brains, and it shows on the field. However, agree that Foote should be out and Timmons in. And that Farrior is past his prime. I also agree that good players like McFadden, Harrison, Timmons and Woodley rot too long on the bench before they are given a chance to start. I know it is part of having depth, but c'mon! Do injuries really have to take place for these guys to contribute sooner?

TOMLIN MUST BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR BEN'S SACKS AND ARIANS' PLAY CALLING.

[Jeemie Profile]

Somehow, neither Hartwig nor Stapleton is capable of long snapping

Somehow neither could anyone else on the roster.

Some centers like Mike Webster were also capable long snappers; however, this was pure coincidence.

If you knew ANYTHING about long snapping, you would know that being a center and being able to long snap are 2 completely different skills.

Somehow, you're a fuking idiot.

While being a center in the NFL does not AUTOMATICALLY mean a person can long-snap, it sure as shit gives you a vast ADVANTAGE over just about everyone ELSE on the roster. For starters, centers MUST be able to snap in the SG formation. Secondly, centers are USED to having the ball in their hands EVERY SINGLE DAY at practice. It's not a stretch for a CENTER in the NFL to conduct a half-decent long-snap, just as it isn't a stretch to ask a catcher to fill in at 1B due to injury. Let's see -- who would you like to have snapping in the 4Q of a tight game -- Hartwig, the starting center who SNAPS the ball all the time in the SG formation, or James Harrison, who has NEVER, EVER long-snapped in a football game, even at the high school level.

Shove your long snap up your ass, Whorro.

It gives you an advantage over someone who...yuo know...has actually DONE long-snapping?

Like...you know...JAMES HARRISON (who did indeed long-snap in high school)?

[Jeemie Profile]

Thank you for proving my point. You didn't disappoint.

Have YOU ever long snapped? I don't have to ask because your last reply told me everything I needed to know.

There is nothing wrong with not knowing something about the game of football Mill. The sin is pretending you know and passing it off as legitimate analysis, and then having the arrogance to defend your ignorance when someone who actually knows what they are talking about gently tries to teach you something.

Being used to having a ball between your legs every day at practice has nothing to do with long snapping.
Snapping in the shotgun formation has nothing to do with long snapping.

I know this because I actually have long snapped both in high school and at the college level. Yes, unlike you Mill, I actually played college football. Long snapping is a very specific skill that has NOTHING to do with playing the center position. I played defensive back as my natural position.

To answer your question about who I would prefer taking over the long snapping duties last night when Warren went down... I would prefer to have the guy who won the job of #2 in a competitive audition during training camp. It is the special teams coach's responsibility to have this plan in place and find the best #2 of the guys on the roster.

Again, let me make this perfectly clear... playing center has NOTHING to do with being able to long snap. Playing center and long snapping are about as similar as playing QB and WR. Clear enough? I doubt it as you do tend to be a stubborn fuck incapable of admitting when you are wrong.

Thanks for proving my point. Thanks for showing that you're a complete fuking idiot. There was NO competition for long snapping at camp. Harrison has NEVER, ever snapped in a game. he NEVER snapped in a preseason game. You cannot have a "competition" if only ONE man gets playing time at a certain task.

As I ALREADY STATED in my article, OTHER options wer available. You DO NOT have to PUNT from a PUNT FORMATION. You CAN punt from a SG formation. The Steelers HAVE done this numerous times over the years, as has just about EVERY team in the NFL. The QB can do a quick pooch punt from the SG formation. But you're too fuking stupid to realize this, and instead you want to blather and drone on and on about how you were the almighty fuking long snapper of all time and about how great James "6 feet over the punter's head" Harrison MUST be as a long snapper. Shove your stupidfuk blathering up your ass, you stupid fuktard.

Pooch punting was a legitimate option. I, personally, would have liked to have seen a pooch-punt on the 4th-4. Maybe Ben pins them inside the 10, and they don't go on to drive to the FG that makes it 14-12.

However, do you REALLY want Ben pooch-punting from our own end?

Or stick a wounded Berger in at shotgun level?

And the idea that long-snapping should have been worked on in rpactice is ludicrous. I bet you can count on one hand the number of long-snappers that have been injured in a game the past thirty years.

There's limited practice and game time. Training someone to back-up long-snap is probably 100th on ANY coach's list of important things to cover.

Maybe now, it won't be, but unfortunately, a coach cannot prepare for EVERY eventuality- especially one that is as rare as a long-snapper getting injured.

So much bullshit from someone who's probably never coached a tiddly-winks team, let alone a professional football squad.

[mpcharles25 Profile]

I was wondering, how could someone be called for offsides on offense (on the interception)? Was it an illegal formation? Nobody on the TV side really elaborated on that.

Arians is a dolt. Where was the no huddle? Troy Aikman said he was one of the better offensive coordinators in the league, and my head almost exploded.

Warren tore his ACL so they better find someone quick.

[Steelers4Tim Profile]

Somehow, neither Hartwig nor Stapleton is capable of long snapping

Somehow neither could anyone else on the roster.

Some centers like Mike Webster were also capable long snappers; however, this was pure coincidence.

If you knew ANYTHING about long snapping, you would know that being a center and being able to long snap are 2 completely different skills.

Zorro, I have to agree with Mill on this one. Someone should have been able to snap the fukking ball besides a fukking linebacker. This is the NFL, the highest level of organized play in the world. Tomlin putting a linebacker to snap only reinforces what I've known since day 1......Tomlin is not ready to be an NFL head coach, not in any way, shape, or form.

The more cool Tomlin tries to act, the more prepared he tries to be, and the more he tries to act like he knows what he's doing as an NFL head coach, the more we realize he's nothing more than a secondary coach.

[Jeemie Profile]

I was wondering, how could someone be called for offsides on offense (on the interception)? Was it an illegal formation? Nobody on the TV side really elaborated on that.

Offsides can be called on the offense, and, IIRC, does not result in a dead ball.

[Jeemie Profile]

Somehow, neither Hartwig nor Stapleton is capable of long snapping

Somehow neither could anyone else on the roster.

Some centers like Mike Webster were also capable long snappers; however, this was pure coincidence.

If you knew ANYTHING about long snapping, you would know that being a center and being able to long snap are 2 completely different skills.

Zorro, I have to agree with Mill on this one. Someone should have been able to snap the fukking ball besides a fukking linebacker. This is the NFL, the highest level of organized play in the world. Tomlin putting a linebacker to snap only reinforces what I've known since day 1......Tomlin is not ready to be an NFL head coach, not in any way, shape, or form.

The more cool Tomlin tries to act, the more prepared he tries to be, and the more he tries to act like he knows what he's doing as an NFL head coach, the more we realize he's nothing more than a secondary coach.

Quick, Tim.

Tell me two things:

1) A coach of any NFL team that practices a back-up long-snapper

2) Every occurrence of a long-snapper getting injured in the last 30 years- with names.

Thank you in advance.

[ZTIWS Profile]

Hey Mill you know who the fucking idiot is it's you.... First None the the centers on the roster are a option for long snaper know why? Guess....



LS are either speicalists or former TE.. why? SO they can GET DOWN FIELD and tackle someone DUH... 250 LS or 315 Center DUH. use a 315 LB center and its like having 10 men on the field.

God you are dumb. This was a last resort for the team and a rare situation this was the plan. Deal with it. Poor Preperation on your coaching staff for not having a better back up plan. Like working with one of your TE to do the long snaping incase of injury.

But since you know so much about football I am sure you thought of that and just forgot to post it.

[ZTIWS Profile]

Somehow, neither Hartwig nor Stapleton is capable of long snapping

Somehow neither could anyone else on the roster.

Some centers like Mike Webster were also capable long snappers; however, this was pure coincidence.

If you knew ANYTHING about long snapping, you would know that being a center and being able to long snap are 2 completely different skills.

Zorro, I have to agree with Mill on this one. Someone should have been able to snap the fukking ball besides a fukking linebacker. This is the NFL, the highest level of organized play in the world. Tomlin putting a linebacker to snap only reinforces what I've known since day 1......Tomlin is not ready to be an NFL head coach, not in any way, shape, or form.

The more cool Tomlin tries to act, the more prepared he tries to be, and the more he tries to act like he knows what he's doing as an NFL head coach, the more we realize he's nothing more than a secondary coach.

Tim read my other post.

It is your coaching staff fault for not having a better back up plan. Make one of the TE the reserve LS. Work with them in the off season.

[Hoppy Profile]

We're lucky it was only 2 points. hobbled punter and rookie snapper. After that,why didn't we use our kicker off the tee, would have been more successful.

Davenport runs like someone told him,"just don't fumble". There are High School kids that could return better. If Tomlin doesn't step up, this team could be HISTORY fast!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steelers4Tim Profile]

Somehow, neither Hartwig nor Stapleton is capable of long snapping

Somehow neither could anyone else on the roster.

Some centers like Mike Webster were also capable long snappers; however, this was pure coincidence.

If you knew ANYTHING about long snapping, you would know that being a center and being able to long snap are 2 completely different skills.

Zorro, I have to agree with Mill on this one. Someone should have been able to snap the fukking ball besides a fukking linebacker. This is the NFL, the highest level of organized play in the world. Tomlin putting a linebacker to snap only reinforces what I've known since day 1......Tomlin is not ready to be an NFL head coach, not in any way, shape, or form.

The more cool Tomlin tries to act, the more prepared he tries to be, and the more he tries to act like he knows what he's doing as an NFL head coach, the more we realize he's nothing more than a secondary coach.[/quote]

Quote: "Quick, Tim.

Tell me two things:

1) A coach of any NFL team that practices a back-up long-snapper

2) Every occurrence of a long-snapper getting injured in the last 30 years- with names.

Thank you in advance."[/quote]


Sure, no problem. Here are your answers:

1) Every team in the history of the NFL, except Tomlin, since the beginning of time.
2) The SeaChickens this year.....check out Tyler Schmitt. Last year....check out Bill Bartum getting hurt for Philly, which made them get Jon Dorenbos as a band-aid. I can go on and on and on.......part of the game.