View topic - Ben v Eli

[Scalaid6 Profile]

Wait, wait, so Ben is flawed and makes mistakes. Obviously that makes him worse than Eli Manning because Eli Manning doesn't make mistakes.

Ya Ben has made bad passes but to blame the Eagles loss on Ben's shoulders is ridiculous. There was nothing he could do. I've never seen a QB under pressure like that win a game. Have you?

Yes, I seen Byron Leftwich look that blitz in the face and throw strikes. The key? GET THE BALL OUT OF YOUR HANDS QUICKLY. Simple

[Scalaid6 Profile]

Scalaid:

Almost everyone here admits Ben's flaws.

But you trying to insist that all the sacks are pretty much entirely on him is just as bad as those who say all the struggles are entirely on the coaches.

And this is why you are not objective.

No one's saying you're lying, but your lack of objectivity causes you to make mistakes (such as your mistake on the statement "The Steelers don't run option routes because Ben is too slow to process them").

Your biases most easily are made visible by the mistakes you make.

Again, I make over 100 mistakes EVERY DAY. Perfection is for God. My mistakes are substantiation that I am not Him. I have witnessed MANY mistakes by everyone on this site. But I'm not desperate enough to cite them, nor do I care, its not tha big of a deal to me.
SHOW ME, where I have said ALL of the sacks are on Ben. I do NOT say that. I say MOST. How is that different than blaming ALL of them on the line? That same line protected Charlie Batch in week 17 vs the Ravens is MUST WIN game for us and the man threw the ball 31 times and ZERO sacks. How do you explain that?? http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d8059d5ab
We were down early in this game so the defense just pinned their ears back and came after him STILL, zero sacks. Please notice the blitzes in the videos. What does he do to beat it? Quick passes. Again. ZERO SACKS.
In the Pro Bowl The only qb to get sacked was BEN. Behind a Pro Bowl line!! How do you explain that?
I know I know its a result of Ben trying to make something happen etc. Keeping the play alive is ok some of the times but I say moving the chains is a better method of keeping plays alive. Bens positives outweigh his negatives but peple dont focus on the those positives that I post they just want to comment on the negatives.
When I say NO qb has better tools than Ben etc thats and other comments are not mentioned.

[Steel Keeper Profile]

Scalaid:

Almost everyone here admits Ben's flaws.

But you trying to insist that all the sacks are pretty much entirely on him is just as bad as those who say all the struggles are entirely on the coaches.

And this is why you are not objective.

No one's saying you're lying, but your lack of objectivity causes you to make mistakes (such as your mistake on the statement "The Steelers don't run option routes because Ben is too slow to process them").

Your biases most easily are made visible by the mistakes you make.

Again, I make over 100 mistakes EVERY DAY. Perfection is for God. My mistakes are substantiation that I am not Him. I have witnessed MANY mistakes by everyone on this site. But I'm not desperate enough to cite them, nor do I care, its not tha big of a deal to me.
SHOW ME, where I have said ALL of the sacks are on Ben. I do NOT say that. I say MOST. How is that different than blaming ALL of them on the line? That same line protected Charlie Batch in week 17 vs the Ravens is MUST WIN game for us and the man threw the ball 31 times and ZERO sacks. How do you explain that?? http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d8059d5ab
We were down early in this game so the defense just pinned their ears back and came after him STILL, zero sacks. Please notice the blitzes in the videos. What does he do to beat it? Quick passes. Again. ZERO SACKS.
In the Pro Bowl The only qb to get sacked was BEN. Behind a Pro Bowl line!! How do you explain that?
I know I know its a result of Ben trying to make something happen etc. Keeping the play alive is ok some of the times but I say moving the chains is a better method of keeping plays alive. Bens positives outweigh his negatives but peple dont focus on the those positives that I post they just want to comment on the negatives.
When I say NO qb has better tools than Ben etc thats and other comments are not mentioned.

First of all, that Ravens game was the opposite of a must win game. The Ravens were eliminated from the playoffs and the Steelers were locked into the #4 seed.

Second, this is one of the places where you lose people. You are implying Charlie Batch is a better QB than Ben by citing ONLY HIS SACK totals as though that is the be all end all for the measure of a QB. Batch was 16 of 31 for 218 2tds and 2 ints. That would be a very sub-par performance for Ben, even against Baltimore. Except Baltimore was playing their backups for most of the game. Look at the box score for that game. Their leadings tacklers were Nick Griesen, David Pittman, Kelly Gregg, Robert McCune, and Dawan Landry. They were playing their B-team.

Honestly, citing 2 sacks in the Pro Bowl. Really? That's your evidence that Ben holds on to the ball too long. The PRO BOWL? There are so many reasons that doesn't matter, not the least of which is a small sample size. Talk about DESPERATE! (oh, snap, burn. see what i did there, turned it around on you)

PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING: It is common knowledge that there are sacks that Ben could have avoided by throwing earlier. But that is part of the trade off with him, he holds on too long and tries to make a big play. Furthermore, unless you watch the coaches tape you can't determine whether his receivers were open.


EDIT: Just watched the clip. The Holmes catch was a carbon copy of the Holmes catch against Cincinnati the year before in OT of week 17. The Wilson catch is something Ben does frequently, to deny it would again expose you as irrationally anti-Ben. The other 3 passes were under no pressure (Ravens' B-team).
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d8059d5ab

[Scalaid6 Profile]

1st of all if you engage in dialogue with me please have your facts together or I will expose you as the novice you are.
Had we beat the Ravens we would have been the THIRD seed and wouldnt have played the Jags in the 1st round (as Rich Eisen points out at the beginning of the clip) so no, we were not locked in the 4 spot.
I have made MANY bold statements on this site. I dont IMPLY anything. If I feel it I say it. If I felt Batch was a better Qb than Ben, I would have said so, since I did not its EVIDENT thats not what I feel. Batch reads defenses better than Ben, THERE IS NO DOUBT. I agree Batch had a mediocre game vs the Ravens but so did Ben in the season he had the motorcycle wreck. When I say that you will immediately point out that Ben wasnt himself etc etc so its not fair to judge his performance that season. I will agree. But if one considers why Ben played bad then why wouldnt one consider why Charlie had a "sub par" game? The facts are that he hadnt played since the Miami game he was far from sharp. If you consider the variables for one you must do the same for the other. This is being objective.
B team? Is that your contention? We lost that game sir. Are you saying we lost to a B team (we certainly played our starters except Ben). Notice in the clips you will see Landry (hes a starter by the way dont know why you listed him), Ed Reed,Suggs, Ngata only starter not to play was Ray. Maybe you need to look at the clip again sir. The Ravens HATE us, they will try to beat us EVERYTIME they play us no matter what the circumstances are.
You say the "trade off" with Ben is that sometimes he will hold the ball too long in order to make a big play. This is true to a certain degree. Do you REALLY call that a TRADE OFF?? Ben gets sacked FAAAAAAAR MORE than he makes big plays. For every Big play I would guess there are 3 sacks as his sack total exceed his tds he only has 83 career tds. This is NOT a trade off
The sheer statistics should be alarming to the Steelers. Roethlisberger has been sacked 166 times in 65 starts in his career. I'm sorry guys, THIS IS A PROBLEM. If the line is bad then how can that same line -since Ben has been our starter, produce 1,300 and 1,400 hundred yard rushers? Not to mention Duce Staley, Jerome Bettis AND Willie having a good year simultaneously behind that line.
Mind you Ben has missed some games. Enter Charlie Batch. In those missed games batch has only been sacked 3 times. Leftwich played in the sack fest vs the Eagles and was sacked only once (mind you he didnt play that long but he passed the majority of the time he played). I am not saying Batch or Byron are better than Ben, all I'm saying is that the sack problem is on Ben most of the time. I have noticed that LATELY, he is getting the ball out of his hand faster and thats a good thing. This is the key to beating pressure.

[Steel Keeper Profile]

My bad on the importance of the game, but it wasn't particularly important, just established who we would play and not where or when. I highlighted Landry and Gregg to show what little impact their big names had. Yes I know he's a starter, went to Georgia Tech little brother Laron was a top 10 pick of the Skins in 07 from LSU, just of the top of my head

You ,sir, are the one who always talks about substantiation, sir, yet you say that Batch is better at reading defenses than Ben, sir, BEYOND ANY DOUBT, sir. Your only evidence is a couple passes (none of which were better than what Ben does on a regular basis) from a relatively unimportant game in week 17, sir.

You go on to criticize my trade off analysis by comparing the number of sacks taken in his career to TD passes, sir. That is an incredibly flawed analysis, sir. The way to compare are avoidable sacks (very few of which you cannot prove without coaches tape) and plays made avoiding the rush when others may have passed sir.

I UNDERSTAND, sir, he should get rid of the ball quicker, sir:

1) you cannot say he should get rid of the on a particular play without coaches tape, with some exceptions, sir
2) he will take chances trying to avoid the rush, sometimes it backfires, others it is richly rewarded, sir (like Eli to Tyree in the SB)
3) To claim that the offensive line is a good pass blocking line b/c we've had decent GROSS rushing totals is so unbelievably shortsighted, sir. Here is why that argument stinks
a) running backs benefit from having a good quarterback by taking the focus off the run game(Edge James in Indy, Mauroney last year, Addai)
b) our o-line has been far stronger at run blocking than pass blocking. Marvel Smith is a natural RT, Faneca towards the end of his tenure here was a poor to average pass blocker but still an awesome run blocker. Hartings ruled both ways. Simmons is ok in the run game and beyond bad in pass pro and Starks and Colon (particularly Starks) are better run blockers than pass blockers
c) gross running totals have so many uncontrolled variables in them that they are virtually useless. 1,300 rusher likely means one guy was the primary back. In the case of the Steelers, they were often ahead in the second half and no team liked to run the ball more often in that situation in each of the last 3 years (minimum) than the Steelers. Thus, good defense + above average offense = 2nd half lead. 2nd half lead + tomlin/cowher philosophy = disproportionate # of runs--> inflated gross numbers relative to actual efficiency. To say the Steelers have had a good pass pro o-line during Ben's tenure is ignorant, plain and simple, sir.
d) get your facts straight, too sir. Bettis and Staley had a good year together and Bettis and Parker had good years together, but never all 3 at the same time, sir

[Scalaid6 Profile]

My bad on the importance of the game, but it wasn't particularly important, just established who we would play and not where or when. I highlighted Landry and Gregg to show what little impact their big names had. Yes I know he's a starter, went to Georgia Tech little brother Laron was a top 10 pick of the Skins in 07 from LSU, just of the top of my head

You ,sir, are the one who always talks about substantiation, sir, yet you say that Batch is better at reading defenses than Ben, sir, BEYOND ANY DOUBT, sir. Your only evidence is a couple passes (none of which were better than what Ben does on a regular basis) from a relatively unimportant game in week 17, sir.

You go on to criticize my trade off analysis by comparing the number of sacks taken in his career to TD passes, sir. That is an incredibly flawed analysis, sir. The way to compare are avoidable sacks (very few of which you cannot prove without coaches tape) and plays made avoiding the rush when others may have passed sir.

I UNDERSTAND, sir, he should get rid of the ball quicker, sir:

1) you cannot say he should get rid of the on a particular play without coaches tape, with some exceptions, sir
2) he will take chances trying to avoid the rush, sometimes it backfires, others it is richly rewarded, sir (like Eli to Tyree in the SB)
3) To claim that the offensive line is a good pass blocking line b/c we've had decent GROSS rushing totals is so unbelievably shortsighted, sir. Here is why that argument stinks
a) running backs benefit from having a good quarterback by taking the focus off the run game(Edge James in Indy, Mauroney last year, Addai)
b) our o-line has been far stronger at run blocking than pass blocking. Marvel Smith is a natural RT, Faneca towards the end of his tenure here was a poor to average pass blocker but still an awesome run blocker. Hartings ruled both ways. Simmons is ok in the run game and beyond bad in pass pro and Starks and Colon (particularly Starks) are better run blockers than pass blockers
c) gross running totals have so many uncontrolled variables in them that they are virtually useless. 1,300 rusher likely means one guy was the primary back. In the case of the Steelers, they were often ahead in the second half and no team liked to run the ball more often in that situation in each of the last 3 years (minimum) than the Steelers. Thus, good defense + above average offense = 2nd half lead. 2nd half lead + tomlin/cowher philosophy = disproportionate # of runs--> inflated gross numbers relative to actual efficiency. To say the Steelers have had a good pass pro o-line during Ben's tenure is ignorant, plain and simple, sir.
d) get your facts straight, too sir. Bettis and Staley had a good year together and Bettis and Parker had good years together, but never all 3 at the same time, sir

First of all sir in the 2004 season Bettis rushed for 941 yards and 13 tds, Duce rushed for 830 yards 1td and Willie rushed for 186 yards on THIRTY TWO carries for a total of 1,957 for the three of them. I'd say that all three having a good year. Had Willie gotten more opportunities that number would only increase sir.
I'll say it again, BEN HAS A SACK PROBLEM not the line. It is due to INDECISION. The numbers support this fact. Lets look at some numbers from his rookie season in 04. Ben passed the ball 295 times and was sacked 30 times. Lets look at what some of his contemporaries did that same year. Peyton Manning threw 497 times and was sacked THIRTEEN TIMES SIR. Lets look at a lesser qb named Jake Plummer. Jake threw the ball 521 times and was sacked only 15 times (226 more attempts and 15 less sacks). Brett Favre passed the ball 540 times and was sacked only 12 times.
2004
Ben 295 Att 30 sacks
P.Manning 497 Att 13 sacks
Plummer 521 Att 15 sacks
Favre 540 Att 12 sacks

2005
Ben 261 Atts 23 sacks
P.Manning 453 Atts 17 sacks
C.Palmer 509 Atts 19 sacks
Brady 530 Atts 26 sacks

2006
Ben 469 Atts 46 sacks
P.Manning 557 Atts 14 sacks
Brees 554 Atts 18 sacks
Rivers 467 Atts 27 sacks

2007
Ben 404 Atts 47 sacks
P.Manning 515 Atts 21 sacks
Romo 520 Atts 24 sacks
Favre 535 Atts 15 sacks

Batch from 05-07
125 Atts 4 sacks
lets x that by 4
500 Atts 20 sacks
During that time he started 4 games. I know he did some mop up duty in blowouts (but this is a non factor because he wouldnt be passing anyway). Mind you ITS THE SAME LINE BEN IS PLAYING BEHIND. Why the dropoff in sacks? Because Batch reads the Defense faster and gets it out sir.
Now honestly bro after looking at this UNDENIABLE proof do you really BELIEVE its the line sir?
This is no trade of with all due respect sir. Ben MUST get the ball out of his hand quickly to cut down on these sacks sir.

[gutofsteel Profile]

Batch isn't getting time against the better defenses. He's in in blowouts against defenses that just want to go home. It's not a good comparison at all. He didn't look very good that final game last year against BAL. Hey, he wasn't sacked but he only completed 16 of 31 and threw 2 picks.

Ben doesn't hold the ball unnecessarily. QB's who "get rid of the ball" typically force passes that result in incompletions and intercpetions. Ben takes some sacks he shouldn't, but he does far more to cover for those receivers and that OL than probably any other QB in the league.

Plus, a third of his sacks last year came on third down. What's he supposed to do, throw short of the sticks or toss it away? I don't think there's a QB in the league who could come close to the success Ben has had behind that horrid OL.

[Scalaid6 Profile]

Batch isn't getting time against the better defenses. He's in in blowouts against defenses that just want to go home. It's not a good comparison at all. He didn't look very good that final game last year against BAL. Hey, he wasn't sacked but he only completed 16 of 31 and threw 2 picks.

Ben doesn't hold the ball unnecessarily. QB's who "get rid of the ball" typically force passes that result in incompletions and intercpetions. Ben takes some sacks he shouldn't, but he does far more to cover for those receivers and that OL than probably any other QB in the league.

Plus, a third of his sacks last year came on third down. What's he supposed to do, throw short of the sticks or toss it away? I don't think there's a QB in the league who could come close to the success Ben has had behind that horrid OL.

Batch started 4 games sir, so who is he playing against? In blowouts how many times would a qb pass? Your not serious are you? Is that your defense? That final game vs the Ravens was the 1st game he lost as a starter that year sir, prior to that he was UNDEFEATED. He threw two picks but you conveniently left out that he threw 2 tds. If Qbs who "get rid of the ball" typically force passes that result in incompletions and intercpetions. Its easy to "SAY" that but can you substantiate it? So now our wrs are bad? I never said he was supposed to throw it away on third down. I said he is supposed to process the information make a read and throw it, its successful. Look at the stats bro. Look how often Peyton throws and look at how low his sacks are. THAT DOESNT ALARM YOU, when compared to ours? Of course not, you guys make 80 excuses for the obvious staring you in the face. When Batch/Leftwich/Maddox/Kordell is in there is NO bad line or sack problems. Add Ben and here come the sacks. The problem is with Ben, its a glaring problem. You notice hes getting the ball out faster these days? Thats a good thing.
I know someone will post "Scalaid why do you keep posting the same thing?". I keep posting the same thing because bloggers keep trying to make flimsy cases against my solid one. Lastly, is Ben a Bum? No. But his success is due in part to the fact that we have a GOOD TEAM. Thats why we can continue to win without Ben,Troy,Hampton,Joey Porter,Mcfadden, Townsend,Parker,Marvell,Simmons,Clark etc. If Ben was on the Texans he couldnt lead them out of the darkness like Manning did the Colts, Brady the Pats (excluding 96 season),Montana the 9ers and Marino the Dolphins.

[darthsteel Profile]

heath miller on steelers gameday just said, there is a lot on bens plate in the no huddle he not only has to know the passing game inside out he has to know the running game inside out and most of the time we break big runs in the no huddle its because ben surveys the field and call the best run play for the situation!

why would he need to know these things inside and out if he only has 2 plays to choose from?


please scaly put up the vid of gannon saying that in the 2nd qt since you always ask for proof , now I am asking for proof!

you have the vid obviously so stick it on youtube !

[Scalaid6 Profile]

I have the game recorded on my DVR sir and I have put the proof AND time he said it, that is proof. And since when is HEATH MILLER interviewed?? lol Anyone who has the game recorded can verify what I said. You mean I'm the only Steeler fan who records all games? I know Im not guys just dont want to step up and confirm what I say to be true and thats fine. The mere fact that nobody has refuted it is EVIDENCE enough for me that its true. AND YOU KNOW IT IS. Your a bit too desperate sir. The two plays is 1. A PASS 2. A RUN.
HEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Scalaid6 Profile]

I went back and checked the footage. Gannon says it at the 14:08 mark of the 2nd qtr. He says "What they do is call 2 plays whether in the huddle or at the line and Ben decides which one best fits the defense he sees. You will hear him say KILL IT KILL IT, that means he killing the 1st play" Please feel free to verify sir. For the record. Does Ben call some plays?? YES. Does Arians call some plays? YES. All of my post support this. What is wrong with this guy? Go to the "Ben will have to step it up more" thread and see that I said this very thing. GEEEEEEEEEEEZ

[Jeemie Profile]

My bad on the importance of the game, but it wasn't particularly important, just established who we would play and not where or when. I highlighted Landry and Gregg to show what little impact their big names had. Yes I know he's a starter, went to Georgia Tech little brother Laron was a top 10 pick of the Skins in 07 from LSU, just of the top of my head

You ,sir, are the one who always talks about substantiation, sir, yet you say that Batch is better at reading defenses than Ben, sir, BEYOND ANY DOUBT, sir. Your only evidence is a couple passes (none of which were better than what Ben does on a regular basis) from a relatively unimportant game in week 17, sir.

You go on to criticize my trade off analysis by comparing the number of sacks taken in his career to TD passes, sir. That is an incredibly flawed analysis, sir. The way to compare are avoidable sacks (very few of which you cannot prove without coaches tape) and plays made avoiding the rush when others may have passed sir.

I UNDERSTAND, sir, he should get rid of the ball quicker, sir:

1) you cannot say he should get rid of the on a particular play without coaches tape, with some exceptions, sir
2) he will take chances trying to avoid the rush, sometimes it backfires, others it is richly rewarded, sir (like Eli to Tyree in the SB)
3) To claim that the offensive line is a good pass blocking line b/c we've had decent GROSS rushing totals is so unbelievably shortsighted, sir. Here is why that argument stinks
a) running backs benefit from having a good quarterback by taking the focus off the run game(Edge James in Indy, Mauroney last year, Addai)
b) our o-line has been far stronger at run blocking than pass blocking. Marvel Smith is a natural RT, Faneca towards the end of his tenure here was a poor to average pass blocker but still an awesome run blocker. Hartings ruled both ways. Simmons is ok in the run game and beyond bad in pass pro and Starks and Colon (particularly Starks) are better run blockers than pass blockers
c) gross running totals have so many uncontrolled variables in them that they are virtually useless. 1,300 rusher likely means one guy was the primary back. In the case of the Steelers, they were often ahead in the second half and no team liked to run the ball more often in that situation in each of the last 3 years (minimum) than the Steelers. Thus, good defense + above average offense = 2nd half lead. 2nd half lead + tomlin/cowher philosophy = disproportionate # of runs--> inflated gross numbers relative to actual efficiency. To say the Steelers have had a good pass pro o-line during Ben's tenure is ignorant, plain and simple, sir.
d) get your facts straight, too sir. Bettis and Staley had a good year together and Bettis and Parker had good years together, but never all 3 at the same time, sir

First of all sir in the 2004 season Bettis rushed for 941 yards and 13 tds, Duce rushed for 830 yards 1td and Willie rushed for 186 yards on THIRTY TWO carries for a total of 1,957 for the three of them. I'd say that all three having a good year. Had Willie gotten more opportunities that number would only increase sir.
I'll say it again, BEN HAS A SACK PROBLEM not the line. It is due to INDECISION. The numbers support this fact. Lets look at some numbers from his rookie season in 04. Ben passed the ball 295 times and was sacked 30 times. Lets look at what some of his contemporaries did that same year. Peyton Manning threw 497 times and was sacked THIRTEEN TIMES SIR. Lets look at a lesser qb named Jake Plummer. Jake threw the ball 521 times and was sacked only 15 times (226 more attempts and 15 less sacks). Brett Favre passed the ball 540 times and was sacked only 12 times.
2004
Ben 295 Att 30 sacks
P.Manning 497 Att 13 sacks
Plummer 521 Att 15 sacks
Favre 540 Att 12 sacks

2005
Ben 261 Atts 23 sacks
P.Manning 453 Atts 17 sacks
C.Palmer 509 Atts 19 sacks
Brady 530 Atts 26 sacks

2006
Ben 469 Atts 46 sacks
P.Manning 557 Atts 14 sacks
Brees 554 Atts 18 sacks
Rivers 467 Atts 27 sacks

2007
Ben 404 Atts 47 sacks
P.Manning 515 Atts 21 sacks
Romo 520 Atts 24 sacks
Favre 535 Atts 15 sacks

Batch from 05-07
125 Atts 4 sacks
lets x that by 4
500 Atts 20 sacks
During that time he started 4 games. I know he did some mop up duty in blowouts (but this is a non factor because he wouldnt be passing anyway). Mind you ITS THE SAME LINE BEN IS PLAYING BEHIND. Why the dropoff in sacks? Because Batch reads the Defense faster and gets it out sir.
Now honestly bro after looking at this UNDENIABLE proof do you really BELIEVE its the line sir?
This is no trade of with all due respect sir. Ben MUST get the ball out of his hand quickly to cut down on these sacks sir.

Why don't you quote things like Batch's completion percentage and YPA?

Then you'll see that while Batch might have been "getting the ball out quickly", he wasn't completing all that many passes and "moving the chains" all that much.

[Scalaid6 Profile]

Because we were talking about sacks not completion percentage. His low completiong percentage only substantiates my POINT, that Batch is NOT better than Ben. He just reads D's better and faster, thats my point and his sack totals prove this. Ben is a good quarterback if he got rid of the ball faster he would be THE BEST. Thats all I'm saying, its too bad most of you take my critique of him as a collateral attack. Its certainly not.

[gutofsteel Profile]

Tom Jackson was saying on ESPN this morning that the reason Ben holds the ball so long is because it takes his WR's so long to get open. He said Holmes is the only one who can consistently get any kind of separation.

Game. Set. Match. Exactly what many of the actual knowledgeable fans here have been saying.

[Scalaid6 Profile]

Does Tom Jackson watch the Steelers every week? Did he get his info form the steelers. How come our staff dont say that? HMMMMMMMM

[gutofsteel Profile]

Does Tom Jackson watch the Steelers every week? Did he get his info form the steelers. How come our staff dont say that? HMMMMMMMM

Yeah, because the coaching staff routinely throws players under the bus like that.

It's not just Tom Jackson, but if you actually saw the games you wouldn't need an analyst to point this out. Ben, who usually doesn't blame his OL, even let it slip when talking about Eli avoiding sacks "I think his OL helps with that..."

This whole "holding the ball thing" was really a media creation last year when they THOUGH the Steelers had a good OL. Once again, creating a reason for Ben's success other than his abilities. Fact is, holding the ball is a very small part of the problem.

Ben is a complete QB and elite. You simply don't put up those numbers without excelling in every facet of what it takes to be a successful QB. He's doing it all now, and a deep playoff run this year will establish Ben as "1c".

[Scalaid6 Profile]

I watch EVERY game sir and have since Sunday Ticket was invented. I dont need the media to give me insight. I was saying he holds the ball too long WAY before the media did. Again, I'm not saying Ben is NOT elite. Ben is elite due to the Team he is on. Thats my point. That pick he just threw was the lines fault right? Notice how Eli is getting the ball out quick and it negates our rush. Thats how its done sir.

[Scalaid6 Profile]

If you cant see the understanding in Elis Play then your BLIND

[Scalaid6 Profile]

Nobody posting on this thread? WHY NOT?? You HOOOO. Where are the Ben backers at??
TOLD YOU SO!!!!

[gutofsteel Profile]

Eli was the quintessential game manager today. He made like two completions over ten yards. Yeah, he wasn't sacked, and if not for PIT holding and dropping passes, this game actually is a blowout. Unless you'd take Eli over Ben your a complete fucking moron for even making that argument. But, you are, more of a moron's moron, I suppose.

If you can't see that game hinged on some key drops and some untimely holding calls you truly are a fuktard. But, then, that is blatantly obvious.