View topic - I say again: I'd rather have Duane Brown and Langford

[lloydrules Profile]

Time will tell, and I will be right again.

The Steelers could have drafted OT Duane Brown in the first round and DE Langford (taken by the Fins) in the 2nd. He already has 2 sacks as a rookie. He is a beast.

http://www.thephinisher.com/2008/07/ken ... lphin.html

They were both there. You will see in the next few years that both players are going to be great NFL players and we needed both an OT and DE more than we needed a HB and WR.

You build a team from the center out. You build a team with a stud LT, QB and DE (less so in a 3-4 but still important). We have the QB. We could have had Brown play RT for 2 years and the OL would have been so much better. We'd probably not even be complaining about it, now that Simmons is gone for the season and his replacement is already better.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 91129.html

I guess moving Colon to RG is out of the question - he hadn't even heard any mention of it.

So, I so wish the "powers that be" had the vision to take a much different course in rounds 1 & 2. Both these players were there for the taking. And both already are contributing to their teams, unlike our rookies (ever).

[McLovin Profile]

You make some good points particularly about building from both lines but whats done is done. Colbert had his players ranked and took the BPA with both Mendenhall and Sweed...based on HIS rankings. Not to defend Colbert he does do some things that are annoying, but Parker was in fact coming off a broken leg so when Mendenhall fell and Otah and Cherilus etc did not it was kind of a no brainer. But you'll be right if Brown turns out to be a player and Colbert loses all 3 of his OTs to free agency this offseason.
Langford would've made sense to be sure and we all know the DL is in need of a youth infusion. But Sweed fell out of late first round presumably because of his wrist injury. None of us could've predicted he'd be a healthy scratch up until this past week. It doesnt look good so far but don't give up yet.

[Suwanee88 Profile]

You build a team from the center out.

Totally agree with you here but I dont like Brown. I think if Otah was available - he would have been a Stiiler for sure - I think Mendy will be a great back one day for us. You are bailing too soon.

[lloydrules Profile]

You build a team from the center out.

Totally agree with you here but I dont like Brown. I think if Otah was available - he would have been a Stiiler for sure - I think Mendy will be a great back one day for us. You are bailing too soon.

I'm not bailing on anyone. I hope Mend. is going to be a good back. But I am just maintaining it would have been wiser to go OL and DL early on than the direction they went. And this won't be the first time that my direction proves to be wiser than the one they took.

Oh, and guess why they took Mundy? That's right, he is from Pgh and the Rooneys just can't let anyone go by who is from Pgh. It's moronic.

[Steel_Buckeye Profile]

Yeah, and hindsight is 20/20. The draft is just like the stock market and gambling, calculated risk, with the emphasis on RISK! It's easy to look back and say we shoulda coulda woulda. Just like we could of had Brandon Marshall instead of Willie Ried a coulple of years ago. It's true we do need to build up the O & D lines, but lets move forward, and make better decisions. Anyway, if Mendenhall would of went to chicago and been having the year that Forte is having, everyone one here would be complaining that we should of taken him. I'm just happy they appeared to hit with Timmons and Woodley in last years draft. That's one positon we shouldn't have to worry about for a while.

[McLovin Profile]

Oh, and guess why they took Mundy? That's right, he is from Pgh and the Rooneys just can't let anyone go by who is from Pgh. It's moronic.

Isn't Dan Marino from Pittsburgh? McLovin can't recall him being drafted by the Steelers...5 Super Bowls...yeah those Rooneys sure make some moronic decisions

[lloydrules Profile]

Yeah, and hindsight is 20/20. The draft is just like the stock market and gambling, calculated risk, with the emphasis on RISK! It's easy to look back and say we shoulda coulda woulda. Just like we could of had Brandon Marshall instead of Willie Ried a coulple of years ago. It's true we do need to build up the O & D lines, but lets move forward, and make better decisions. Anyway, if Mendenhall would of went to chicago and been having the year that Forte is having, everyone one here would be complaining that we should of taken him. I'm just happy they appeared to hit with Timmons and Woodley in last years draft. That's one positon we shouldn't have to worry about for a while.

Sigh. I'm not doing this in hindsight. I said this the days of the draft. Taking a project at 4 as the total effort to build the OL is MORONIC. I said it then. I say it now. Both Brown and Langford are off to good starts and by all indications are going to be fine pro players. This does not mean I have given up on Mendy and Sweed; it's just that I know the future of our team would be better and brighter had they taken those two, much more needed, players. I can envision what a OL with Brown at RT, as opposed to a short, stubby guard, and a DL with Langford platooning this year and starting by next.

And what would this team be lessened had we not drafted Mend. and Sweed? Not one thing. Nothing. True, we don't know what they will contribute next year and beyond, but still, it appears that I knew what I was saying last spring.

It wasn't hindsight.

This team has made severe errors in allowing our lines to weaken each year, doing very little to alter the course.

[lloydrules Profile]

Isn't Dan Marino from Pittsburgh? McLovin can't recall him being drafted by the Steelers...5 Super Bowls...yeah those Rooneys sure make some moronic decisions

Marino was doing enough blow to kill a large horse in the 80s while at Pitt. And it was hardly a secret, especially to those living in Pgh, including the network of people with the Steelers.

And 4 of the 5 super bowls came from a team run by Chuck Noll 35 years ago, so give me a break. A smart, no-cheap organization would have won at least two more in the 90s.

Are the Steelers the worst managed team ever? No. They are fairly solid in a lot of areas. Are they the brightest and do everything possible to win? Not a chance.

[catesinator Profile]

Sigh. I'm not doing this in hindsight. I said this the days of the draft.

Bullshit. I've been on this board for 3 years and not a single fucking person toted taking Duane Brown in the first fucking round. There were some that hoped for Langford in the FIRST round as I recall, so you may have a case there. But not a single person on any Steeler board I'm on (Stillers.com, Fury and CKs board) touted taking Brown in the first.

If the Steelers had taken either of these guys they'd be on the bench and legions of fans would be bitching that we had bypassed the top talent when we picked (Mendenhall) to overdraft Brown. Langford would have gotten some playing time by now thanks to Keisel's injury, but would have had no impact the way this defense is built.

[McLovin Profile]

Isn't Dan Marino from Pittsburgh? McLovin can't recall him being drafted by the Steelers...5 Super Bowls...yeah those Rooneys sure make some moronic decisions

Marino was doing enough blow to kill a large horse in the 80s while at Pitt. And it was hardly a secret, especially to those living in Pgh, including the network of people with the Steelers.

And 4 of the 5 super bowls came from a team run by Chuck Noll 35 years ago, so give me a break. A smart, no-cheap organization would have won at least two more in the 90s.

Are the Steelers the worst managed team ever? No. They are fairly solid in a lot of areas. Are they the brightest and do everything possible to win? Not a chance.

"Fairly solid in a lot of areas?" Sorry but McLovin disagrees...Rooneys solid in ALL areas and to say they are cheap just not true. For the most part the Rooneys pick the correct players to extend contracts to...I'd say paying Ben $107 mil alone shows they are not cheap and they are more than committed to producing a winning team. Not even a topic worth debating.

As for Marino, Dan Rooney himself says his biggest regret was not drafting Dan Marino and that the cocaine rumors were just that rumors. Your original quote says Rooneys never pass on a Pittsburgh player....dumb statement on your part..an endless pipeline of football players born in Pittsburgh area regrettably never played for the Steelers...don't recall seeing Marc Bulger, Jason Taylor, Darelle Revis, Curtis Martin, Tony Dorsett, Joe Montana, etc. etc. etc. wearing a Steelers uniform..

[lloydrules Profile]

Sigh. I'm not doing this in hindsight. I said this the days of the draft.

Bullshit. I've been on this board for 3 years and not a single fucking person toted taking Duane Brown in the first fucking round. There were some that hoped for Langford in the FIRST round as I recall, so you may have a case there. But not a single person on any Steeler board I'm on (Stillers.com, Fury and CKs board) touted taking Brown in the first.

If the Steelers had taken either of these guys they'd be on the bench and legions of fans would be bitching that we had bypassed the top talent when we picked (Mendenhall) to overdraft Brown. Langford would have gotten some playing time by now thanks to Keisel's injury, but would have had no impact the way this defense is built.

I don't think I was even posting on this board then. I don't even know if this board existed then. For a long time it was inoperable and a pile of shit. And I don't know if I was posting, period. That hardly invalidates that I held the opinion, for fucks sake.

I advocated OL twice in top 3 picks, and DL once, ad naseum. The rest of the 4 picks basically BAA.

[jstallworth82 Profile]

Lloydrules sounds like a cowqueer fan. not to mention to be nice not very football savvy

[lloydrules Profile]

"Fairly solid in a lot of areas?" Sorry but McLovin disagrees...Rooneys solid in ALL areas and to say they are cheap just not true. For the most part the Rooneys pick the correct players to extend contracts to...I'd say paying Ben $107 mil alone shows they are not cheap and they are more than committed to producing a winning team. Not even a topic worth debating.

As for Marino, Dan Rooney himself says his biggest regret was not drafting Dan Marino and that the cocaine rumors were just that rumors. Your original quote says Rooneys never pass on a Pittsburgh player....dumb statement on your part..an endless pipeline of football players born in Pittsburgh area regrettably never played for the Steelers...don't recall seeing Marc Bulger, Jason Taylor, Darelle Revis, Curtis Martin, Tony Dorsett, Joe Montana, etc. etc. etc. wearing a Steelers uniform..


Obviously, when asserting they "take every player from Pgh" I wasn't being literal. I would think that was obvious.

But anyone half way paying attention sees that they over-value trying to sign and draft ppl who lived in Pgh. It's like they think being from Pgh makes you magical. It's crap.

Oh, and how do you know the coke rumors were not true? Did you know people who partied with the football players? Like roommate with some of the players? Just wondering how you know.

And, with the cheapness thing. Once again someone has taken too simplistic a view of the subject and tries to draw conclusions of a six-sided puzzle by only looking at one side of it.

Just like with the subject of the Rooney putting too much stock into Pgh being from Pgh, it's not as simple as a single plane. Do the Rooneys do SOME things that are not cheap, like signing Ben to $100 million? Sure. Is that decision to sign BB long term an actual INVESTMENT that will reap them 20x that #? You bet.

Do they Rooneys consistently sit on their hands to save a few bucks when they COULD do more to find cap space? Does that save them from spending some more $ on signing bonuses to give the team the best chance of winning it all? All the time. Every year, pretty much.

Do I agree with them on some of the players I wouldn't pay top $ to and allow to leave? All the time. Faneca is a good example of where I was GLAD they weren't going to pay huge $ to keep him here. I don't advocate paying _most_ any players top $ in their 30s. There are exceptions but that's still the rule.

[Scalaid6 Profile]

Guys are calling our draft class a failure like they will be busts. This is crazy. How much did Hines play his 1st season etc This is ridiculous. I never criticize the brass in respect to draft etc. Their track record speaks for itself. How many free agents have we lost year afer year after year? We are still successful despite this fact. This guy wants a Dlineman, HELLLOOOOOOOOOOOO. We run the 3-4 how many Dlineman STAR in a 3-4 scheme? The 3-4 is designed for the Lbs to shine sir. We have depth at Dline and are doing surprisingly well in that regard.

[Guinness Profile]

Guys are calling our draft class a failure like they will be busts. This is crazy. How much did Hines play his 1st season etc This is ridiculous. I never criticize the brass in respect to draft etc. Their track record speaks for itself. How many free agents have we lost year afer year after year? We are still successful despite this fact. This guy wants a Dlineman, HELLLOOOOOOOOOOOO. We run the 3-4 how many Dlineman STAR in a 3-4 scheme? The 3-4 is designed for the Lbs to shine sir. We have depth at Dline and are doing surprisingly well in that regard.

I find myself agreeing with Scalaid6. The Steelers don't need to invest high draft picks on the DL. The DL are gap control guys that anchor against the run. When in passing situations they only employ 2 DL and these guys again push the pocket but still are required to be disciplined in keeping their lanes so that the quarterback can't easily escape the pocket. The Stillers need to invest their high draft picks in other defensive postions (LB and DB) and correctly do so.

[lloydrules Profile]

Guys are calling our draft class a failure like they will be busts. This is crazy. How much did Hines play his 1st season etc This is ridiculous. I never criticize the brass in respect to draft etc. Their track record speaks for itself. How many free agents have we lost year afer year after year? We are still successful despite this fact. This guy wants a Dlineman, HELLLOOOOOOOOOOOO. We run the 3-4 how many Dlineman STAR in a 3-4 scheme? The 3-4 is designed for the Lbs to shine sir. We have depth at Dline and are doing surprisingly well in that regard.

I find myself agreeing with Scalaid6. The Steelers don't need to invest high draft picks on the DL. The DL are gap control guys that anchor against the run. When in passing situations they only employ 2 DL and these guys again push the pocket but still are required to be disciplined in keeping their lanes so that the quarterback can't easily escape the pocket. The Stillers need to invest their high draft picks in other defensive postions (LB and DB) and correctly do so.

I don't disagree with any of this. We DON'T need to use much high draft picks on a 3-4 line. However, let's return to my original assertion: This team's future would be better and brighter had they drafted Brown and Langford. Our DL doesn't need ALL high draft picks. But let us not forget what round Hampton was taken: FIRST. And a low 2nd rounder is not that high. The 3-4 D does not excel unless your DL is there. Let us not forget what happened to the D after Smith went down.

Face it: The Steelers would be far better off had they drafted Brown and Langford. They could have got a decent RB and WR later. Look at the kid AZ got in the 5th round: Hightower.
And taking a LB who won't see the field for 2 years, at least, is genius. No sense in taking a OLman there

[Scalaid6 Profile]

The draft is hardly EVER determined by the 1st year let alone a third of the year. How long did it take Bralylon Edwards to develop? Tom Brady, James Harrison, Willie Parker, Jake Delhomme, Terry Bradshaw. Dude I could name hundreds of guys who took time to develop. Ben is in his 5th season and he still hasnt come into his own. Again, I for one dont question the Steelers brass, their record speaks for itself. Then again, there is always an exception to every rule.

[Guinness Profile]

Guys are calling our draft class a failure like they will be busts. This is crazy. How much did Hines play his 1st season etc This is ridiculous. I never criticize the brass in respect to draft etc. Their track record speaks for itself. How many free agents have we lost year afer year after year? We are still successful despite this fact. This guy wants a Dlineman, HELLLOOOOOOOOOOOO. We run the 3-4 how many Dlineman STAR in a 3-4 scheme? The 3-4 is designed for the Lbs to shine sir. We have depth at Dline and are doing surprisingly well in that regard.

I find myself agreeing with Scalaid6. The Steelers don't need to invest high draft picks on the DL. The DL are gap control guys that anchor against the run. When in passing situations they only employ 2 DL and these guys again push the pocket but still are required to be disciplined in keeping their lanes so that the quarterback can't easily escape the pocket. The Stillers need to invest their high draft picks in other defensive postions (LB and DB) and correctly do so.

I don't disagree with any of this. We DON'T need to use much high draft picks on a 3-4 line. However, let's return to my original assertion: This team's future would be better and brighter had they drafted Brown and Langford. Our DL doesn't need ALL high draft picks. But let us not forget what round Hampton was taken: FIRST. And a low 2nd rounder is not that high. The 3-4 D does not excel unless your DL is there. Let us not forget what happened to the D after Smith went down.

Face it: The Steelers would be far better off had they drafted Brown and Langford. They could have got a decent RB and WR later. Look at the kid AZ got in the 5th round: Hightower.
And taking a LB who won't see the field for 2 years, at least, is genius. No sense in taking a OLman there

You may end up being correct but we aren't going to know for a couple of years and we've seen how the the 4 players develop. BTW the Steelers have a reasonably high draft pick OT sitting on his ass - aka Max Starks round 3 pick 12 of the 2004 draft. He has played very well when called upon but mysteriously can't crack the starting lineup. BTW - not all successful teams invest their high draft picks (which also equates to big $$'s on the OL. There was an interesting article a couple of weeks back that profiled the starting OL for the NYG, Pats, Colts etc and by enlarge these weren't the high profile, highly paid linemen of the NFL. In today's NFL teams need to know where they are going to invest their big $$'s and where they are going to go with servicable, non-elite guys that don't break the bank. An elite left OT is a $10M/year player now. If the Steelers decide to put their big $$'s at that position it prevents them from keeping an elite guy at another position - that's just the way it works. I think the Steelers do a pretty good job of spending wisely and with a specific purpose (Max Starks contract aside) and that is why they have been able to sustain a successful organization over many years. Thinking back 20 years how many seasons did you go into the season thinking "We don't have any chance of making the playoffs"? Not many I'll bet. There aren't many other teams I can think of whose fans can say that.

[Scalaid6 Profile]

AGREED 100%

[lloydrules Profile]

You may end up being correct but we aren't going to know for a couple of years and we've seen how the the 4 players develop. BTW the Steelers have a reasonably high draft pick OT sitting on his ass - aka Max Starks round 3 pick 12 of the 2004 draft. He has played very well when called upon but mysteriously can't crack the starting lineup. BTW - not all successful teams invest their high draft picks (which also equates to big $$'s on the OL. There was an interesting article a couple of weeks back that profiled the starting OL for the NYG, Pats, Colts etc and by enlarge these weren't the high profile, highly paid linemen of the NFL. In today's NFL teams need to know where they are going to invest their big $$'s and where they are going to go with servicable, non-elite guys that don't break the bank. An elite left OT is a $10M/year player now. If the Steelers decide to put their big $$'s at that position it prevents them from keeping an elite guy at another position - that's just the way it works. I think the Steelers do a pretty good job of spending wisely and with a specific purpose (Max Starks contract aside) and that is why they have been able to sustain a successful organization over many years. Thinking back 20 years how many seasons did you go into the season thinking "We don't have any chance of making the playoffs"? Not many I'll bet. There aren't many other teams I can think of whose fans can say that.

I never said we need an elite LT. But you don't end up with an elite LT just from drafting them high to begin with. They become elite because of their PLAY.

I just want them to put the APPROPRIATE focus and energy on the OL. They have REFUSED to do so the last 3 years. Had they in any one year, or just an uptic over the last 3, it would be acceptable - but what they've done has NOT been.

Some one asked me what OL and DL would have been available to us in the 1st and 2nd, worthy of taking. I answered the question: Brown and Langford.

That is all.

Pgh drafts better than most teams. But that hardly means they don't make mistakes. And with drafting (or lack there of) for the OL the last 3 years, they have.