View topic - BIG BEN IS THE REAL REASON WE HAVE LINE PROBLEMS!!!

[Scalaid6 Profile]

In regards to the woman in spandex- Please dont talk about your mother that way thats very disrespectful. 2nd anytime we play the Ravens its NEVER garbage time and of course we were resting for the playoffs but the RAVENS WERNT, THATS MY POINT. Did you notice Holmes scoring that TD on the blitz? Last I checked hes a starter. Did you notice our 1st team line out there? Did you notice any sacks? Did you notice Ed Reed on the field? How bout Landry? How bout Bart Scott? How bout EVERY Ravens Starter? Mncair?? And Uh, I didnt post a video showing Ben shred the Ravens on Monday Night (throwback jerseys) Please check the thread started by YOURS Truly called "DOES BEN HAVE THE GOODS WITHOUTH QUESTION!" What video did I post? Uh Steelers Ravens game 1, BET YOU FEEL DUMB. Now address the issue and explain why the Ravens blitzed the crap out of Batch yet he wasnt sacked??? MIND YOU HE THREW THE BALL 31 TIMES AND ZERO SACKS.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=2 ... week=REG17

[Teegre Profile]

Your wrong the only basis of comparison I'm using is who beat the blitz and who did not. Who got the ball out of their hand and who did not. Thats the ONLY thing I am looking at and the only thing I have talked about. ONLY A FOOL would say Byron is Better than Ben. Now if I have said that then Please show me

So, you finally admit that Byron would not have done any better than Ben.
At least you can admit it.

By the way...you do realize that you have just painted yourself into a corner.

If you agree that Byron could not have done any better than Ben...
...then there is no more reason to argue, because you agree with my point (which is evidenced in the aforementioned statistics).
Ben was 6/7 for 59 yards, one incomplete pass.
Byron was 4/8 for 60 yards, three incompletions...and one sack (for -9 yards).
Summation: Ben had two less incompletions...and no sacks.
(Reading between the lines: Ben handled the pressure better than Byron.)

I am sure that you will retort about Ben’s fumbles & inability to negate the blitz. But, you have already admitted that Byron would not have done any better than Ben did. In turn, whatever else happened in the game is a non-issue in this argument....right?

Once again, the only common criteria that can be analyzed between these two quarterbacks is the first series.

In other words...
Game. Set. Match!!!

By the way...

When you talk about Big Ben being “the third best quarterback behind Byron in the MAC” and asking “what does that tell you about Ben?”...you are indeed alluding to the fact that you think that Byron could have done better.

Furthermore, please follow the deductive reasoning:
1) The comparison of Ben’s & Byron’s first series shows that Ben handled the pressure better.
2) You continue to mention Ben’s fumbles & his safety.
3) You continue to mention that Byron was handling the pressure better.

4) Since we already know that Ben was better than Byron on the first series. And, since that is the only thing that is commonly comparable between these two players. One can only assume that when you mention 2 & 3, you must be referring to the rest of the game.

In other words, since the statistics show that Byron played better than Ben on that first series, when you say “Byron handled the pressure better than Ben” the only thing you could possibly be referring to is the rest of the game.

5) Ergo, you have indeed been alluding to the fact that Byron would have played better than Ben.

In my best Lee “Hacksaw” Hamilton voice: “Good-night now!!!”

[Scalaid6 Profile]

Painted in a corner? Wishful thinking. Ben is better that Byron because he has been in the system longer. I never said Ben was a bum, I said he doesnt handle pressure well and he doesnt. To compare Bens 1st series vs Byrons ONLY series is ridiculous and incomplete. Thats like saying Jeff Gordon only ran one lap at talledega and was timed at 162 mph and Tony Stewart ran the whole race on a avg of 132 BUT on Stewarts 1st lap he was clocked at 163. See how STUPID you sound?? Obviously YOU DIDNT watch the game (I did) and on The Steelers 1st series I ask you DID THE EAGLES BLITZ? Watch the game sir before you open your mouth. It was a 4 man rush the whole drive (refer to the game and see) On Byrons drive however, the blitz was COMING hard and often and you forgot to mention that pass in the endzone wasnt incomplete it was DROPPED by Nate Washington with his feeble one hand catch. Its mighty funny the Steelers are DUMBING down the offense this week for who? Every lineman is a vet except kimo. Dumbing it down for Hines, Heath and Holmes? Not likely (as you saw heath caught two hot routes when Byron was in) so he GETS IT. Holmes caught one last season with Batch and scored so he GETS it and we all know Hines gets it. So that leaves ONE person and that person is Ben. The sack total climbs when hes behind center, isnt that ironic or is it a coincidence? No sack problem with Maddox, None with the bum Kordell, none with O'donnell, none with Batch, non with Byron. ONLY BEN. But I'm picking on him. Coupled with when we played the Cards what did our EX O COORDINATOR DO? He blitzed Ben silly, why did he do that? He did it because he knows like I know, if Ben doesnt have time he gets nervous and makes mistakes. I'm not pitying Byron vs Ben I merely state the facts. Fact is Leftwich was the best qb in the Mac when they were both in college. Byron and the Jags beat us when He was a Jag (2 times). I'm not saying, I'm just sayin.
Is Byron better than Ben?Not in my opinion but If Ben keeps missing hot routes and taking all these sacks, we are about to find out, soon. What would I have to backpedal for, I'm not Jason Seahorn. I have been CONSISTENT with my statements. Been has problems when the pressure comes and that a fact. Nobody else can explain why the sack totals rise when hes in and decrease when hes out. Hmmmmmmm

[Scalaid6 Profile]

Now address the issue and explain why the Ravens blitzed the crap out of Batch yet he wasnt sacked??? MIND YOU HE THREW THE BALL 31 TIMES AND ZERO SACKS.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=2 ... week=REG17

[Teegre Profile]

Painted in a corner? Wishful thinking. Ben is better that Byron because he has been in the system longer. I never said Ben was a bum, I said he doesnt handle pressure well and he doesnt. To compare Bens 1st series vs Byrons ONLY series is ridiculous and incomplete. Thats like saying Jeff Gordon only ran one lap at talledega and was timed at 162 mph and Tony Stewart ran the whole race on a avg of 132 BUT on Stewarts 1st lap he was clocked at 163. See how STUPID you sound?? Obviously YOU DIDNT watch the game (I did) and on The Steelers 1st series I ask you DID THE EAGLES BLITZ? Watch the game sir before you open your mouth. It was a 4 man rush the whole drive (refer to the game and see) On Byrons drive however, the blitz was COMING hard and often and you forgot to mention that pass in the endzone wasnt incomplete it was DROPPED by Nate Washington with his feeble one hand catch. Its mighty funny the Steelers are DUMBING down the offense this week for who? Every lineman is a vet except kimo. Dumbing it down for Hines, Heath and Holmes? Not likely (as you saw heath caught two hot routes when Byron was in) so he GETS IT. Holmes caught one last season with Batch and scored so he GETS it and we all know Hines gets it. So that leaves ONE person and that person is Ben. The sack total climbs when hes behind center, isnt that ironic or is it a coincidence? No sack problem with Maddox, None with the bum Kordell, none with O'donnell, none with Batch, non with Byron. ONLY BEN. But I'm picking on him. Coupled with when we played the Cards what did our EX O COORDINATOR DO? He blitzed Ben silly, why did he do that? He did it because he knows like I know, if Ben doesnt have time he gets nervous and makes mistakes. I'm not pitying Byron vs Ben I merely state the facts. Fact is Leftwich was the best qb in the Mac when they were both in college. Byron and the Jags beat us when He was a Jag (2 times). I'm not saying, I'm just sayin.
Is Byron better than Ben?Not in my opinion but If Ben keeps missing hot routes and taking all these sacks, we are about to find out, soon. What would I have to backpedal for, I'm not Jason Seahorn. I have been CONSISTENT with my statements. Been has problems when the pressure comes and that a fact. Nobody else can explain why the sack totals rise when hes in and decrease when hes out. Hmmmmmmm

1) Byron completed half of his throws on his lone series.
Three incompletions.
One sack.
And, you are trying to say that Byron handled the blitz well...???

(btw: As far as drops go, Ben has had his share of the WRs dropping the ball on him; ergo, that is a moot point.)

2) In regards to my only citing one drive...uh...you were the one who wanted to stick to the "facts" of this game. Talking about the rest of the game would be, in your words, "conjecture"...right???
Well, the only comparable facts from this game were from each quarterback's first series.
And, once again, they show that Byron was indeed starting to feel the effects of the pressure (three incompletions & a sack). Ergo, whether or not Ben was rushed or not in the first half makes little difference...because, if it is about Byron handling the pressure, the statistics show that Byron did not.

2-a) And, of course I watched the game. "Killing the messenger" will not win you this argument. In fact, it will end and/all further discussions. Careful, brother...do not sink to using derision.

3) Pick a side: you keep alluding to the fact that Byron is better than Ben...then you say that Ben is better.
(e.g. "Ben is better that Byron because he has been in the system longer"...is alluding to the fact that if Byron were here longer, he would/should be the starter.)
Make up your mind.

4) Let me ask you this:
What do you freakin' want???
What is with the hell-bent rants in every thread bashing Ben???
The thread can be about Mendehall, and you mention Ben...???
Seriously...what do you want???
Because, it sounds (from your continuous stabs at his heart and his acuity) that you want Ben benched.

Whether or not that is what you want (and, No, you did not actually state that you wanted Ben benched, Mr. "Playing the Semantics Game")...
...that is the opinion that is coming across.

5) Finally, before we move on to the other thirteen things you mention in your post (e.g. the Jaguars; the Ravens game; Kordell), let's finish this one thing first:
Byron versus Ben in this game.

I'm goign to watch some Bill Haverchuck, and go to bed.
G'night now, Encinitas!!!

[Scalaid6 Profile]

I have made many straight forward statements so dont you think If I wanted Ben Benched I wouldnt ALLUDE to it, I WOULD SAY IT. Have I said that? Do you think I care if you guys are getting brittle because I tell the truth about our Qb? I dont. Lets look at the evidence AGAIN. Ben is a 5th year starter but yet the LEAGUE is STILL putting 8 men in the box on him. The league is STILL all out blitzing him. Hell they dont even do that to rookie Matt Ryan. Do they do that to his peers (Phillip Rivers, Eli?) They dont. Why? Because those two have the UNDERSTANDING and the warewithal to CONSISTENTLY beat the defense when such a tactic is used.

Why would Wisenhunt choose that strategy last season? Why did Ben and Wiz have a SOUR relationship? Why did Ben state "He yells and I dont respond too well to people yelling at me". I ask you what do you think he was yelling at Ben about? MAKE YOUR READS QUICKER BEN! GET THE BALL OUT OF YOUR HAND QUICKER BEN! Face the facts spiderman (the way you are trying to SPIN the situation) When Ben is out of the offense THERE IS NO LINE PROBLEM. When hes there THERE IS, that is no pipe dream its a reality sir.

I have given you ex coaches, I have given you footage, I have given you qb comparrisons of the past and the present and your ONLY point of contention is BEN DID BETTER ON HIS 1ST DRIVE THAN BYRON HE COMPLETED MORE PASSES ETC????????????????? Thats like saying a guy called up from AAA is a better hitter than Albert Pujols because he had 4 at bats and got 3 hits and Pujols had 300 at bats and only got 130. ARE YOUR KIDDING ME?

I know you guys want Ben to be the second coming of Bradshaw but HES NOT TERRY. Hes WEAK mentally and cowers to pressure (he had a great SB too didnt he when the pressure was at its highest) Ben doesnt like pressure, his mentality is soft and thats a fact. Potentially and Physically he has the goods. Hes Big, Hes strong, Hes mobile to a certain degree, He has a GOOD arm but UPSTAIRS there is a problem up there. Sometimes Ben is in La la land. Do all of these facts mean I hate Ben? Of course not. Im only pointing out the facts as I see them. You guys can waste your posts criticizing Arians and Tomlin and I'll waste mine putting the blame on the straw that stirs the drink on the one whos finger is on the trigger. Lastly, When Brady, BOTH MANNINGS Arent on the field, what do you see them doing? They are studying poloroids of the defenses and trying to break the code. I RARELY see Ben doing that. He is no student of the game. Talented? Yes but I'm telling you the guy processing the information too slow.

In regards to Byron. You cant compare the drives Byron was being blitzed and Ben wasnt. Go watch the game and tell me at what point was ben being blitzed. I will chronicle that drive for you sir because I break down film like Siskell and Ebert back in the day.

Bens 1st play (4man rush) NO BLITZ- Complete to Nat/ 2nd play 4 man rush (NO BLITZ) Wille -1/3rd play 7 man BLITZ SACK-flag down offsides philly/ 4th play 4man rush NO BLITZ- S.Holmes +16/ 5th play 7man blitz quick screen to Holmes THIS IS WHAT YOU MUST DO VS BLITZ GET BALL OUT! +6/ 6Play 5man rush flushed throws short to Holmes/ 7thplay 3man rush (nickel)complete to ward +8/ 8thplay BLITZ run to willie -1/9th play 5man BLITZ Quick pass to Nat- THIS IS WHAT YOU MUST DO DONT HOLD IT-+17/10th play run to willie +6/11thplay 6man BLITZ willie 0 gain/12th play-7man BLITZ BEN BOBBLES THE BALL HITS HIM IN CHEST LOOKING AT BLITZ TIMING IS OFF throws ball in dirt 4th down= fg. Now Ben was blitzed a total of 4Times on that 1st drive with completions of 6 and 17 and 2 balls thrown short (50%)

Byrons 1st play 4man rush NO BLITZ complete to Nate +11/ 2nd play 3man rush (nickel) bad pass to nate/3rd play 7man BLITZ Quick pass to Heath for 21 (longest gain of the day)/ 4th play 5man BLITZ complete to Heath/ 5th play 6man BLITZ pass to nate incomplete in endzone/6th play 5 man BLITZ pass complete to Nate/7th play 5man BLITZ=sacked/8th play 3man rush (nickel) no blitz ball in dirt. So Byron was blitzed 4 times and beat it 3 times (75%) and mind you the man hadnt played all game and wasnt properly warmed up (must include variables) and keep in mind one of Bens passes to beat the blitz was a screen to Holmes behind the line. Byron beat it by getting the ball down the field. he was 75% against the blitz to Bens 50% and Ben got WORSE as the game went on. FACT.

Again, not saying Byron is better but you asked me to compare the drives so I did and not froma NFL.com play by play perspective but by a blitz perspective. I'm not alluding to the fact that Byron is better, I'm saying BEN IS but when it comes to HANDLING PRESSURE BYRON AND CHARLIE ARE. Are we clear now? Pressure bothers Ben and that BOTHERS ME. You asked what do I want? I want Ben to conquer this fear of pressure, I want him to speed up with the game and be able to play FAST. I want to see him be the complete Qb so I can pit my guy against the punk patriots and Colts guy. Right now my pats and colts friends are killing me. I cant say "Ben is better than your qb with the weaknesses he has now. Thats what I want, I want my qb to be complete and to fix that ONE weakness in his game. I hope we are clear now

~Signed the Troll Rymes with my favorite coach Noll
By the way why would a Troll record Steeler game and disect them etc??? Just wondering..........

[Scalaid6 Profile]

Why are you AVOIDING this question?? Explain why the Ravens blitzed the crap out of Batch yet he wasnt sacked??? MIND YOU HE THREW THE BALL 31 TIMES AND ZERO SACKS.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=2 ... week=REG17

[Teegre Profile]

I have made many straight forward statements so dont you think If I wanted Ben Benched I wouldnt ALLUDE to it, I WOULD SAY IT. Have I said that? Do you think I care if you guys are getting brittle because I tell the truth about our Qb? I dont. Lets look at the evidence AGAIN. Ben is a 5th year starter but yet the LEAGUE is STILL putting 8 men in the box on him. The league is STILL all out blitzing him. Hell they dont even do that to rookie Matt Ryan. Do they do that to his peers (Phillip Rivers, Eli?) They dont. Why? Because those two have the UNDERSTANDING and the warewithal to CONSISTENTLY beat the defense when such a tactic is used.

Why would Wisenhunt choose that strategy last season? Why did Ben and Wiz have a SOUR relationship? Why did Ben state "He yells and I dont respond too well to people yelling at me". I ask you what do you think he was yelling at Ben about? MAKE YOUR READS QUICKER BEN! GET THE BALL OUT OF YOUR HAND QUICKER BEN! Face the facts spiderman (the way you are trying to SPIN the situation) When Ben is out of the offense THERE IS NO LINE PROBLEM. When hes there THERE IS, that is no pipe dream its a reality sir.

I have given you ex coaches, I have given you footage, I have given you qb comparrisons of the past and the present and your ONLY point of contention is BEN DID BETTER ON HIS 1ST DRIVE THAN BYRON HE COMPLETED MORE PASSES ETC????????????????? Thats like saying a guy called up from AAA is a better hitter than Albert Pujols because he had 4 at bats and got 3 hits and Pujols had 300 at bats and only got 130. ARE YOUR KIDDING ME?

I know you guys want Ben to be the second coming of Bradshaw but HES NOT TERRY. Hes WEAK mentally and cowers to pressure (he had a great SB too didnt he when the pressure was at its highest) Ben doesnt like pressure, his mentality is soft and thats a fact. Potentially and Physically he has the goods. Hes Big, Hes strong, Hes mobile to a certain degree, He has a GOOD arm but UPSTAIRS there is a problem up there. Sometimes Ben is in La la land. Do all of these facts mean I hate Ben? Of course not. Im only pointing out the facts as I see them. You guys can waste your posts criticizing Arians and Tomlin and I'll waste mine putting the blame on the straw that stirs the drink on the one whos finger is on the trigger. Lastly, When Brady, BOTH MANNINGS Arent on the field, what do you see them doing? They are studying poloroids of the defenses and trying to break the code. I RARELY see Ben doing that. He is no student of the game. Talented? Yes but I'm telling you the guy processing the information too slow.

In regards to Byron. You cant compare the drives Byron was being blitzed and Ben wasnt. Go watch the game and tell me at what point was ben being blitzed. I will chronicle that drive for you sir because I break down film like Siskell and Ebert back in the day.

Bens 1st play (4man rush) NO BLITZ- Complete to Nat/ 2nd play 4 man rush (NO BLITZ) Wille -1/3rd play 7 man BLITZ SACK-flag down offsides philly/ 4th play 4man rush NO BLITZ- S.Holmes +16/ 5th play 7man blitz quick screen to Holmes THIS IS WHAT YOU MUST DO VS BLITZ GET BALL OUT! +6/ 6Play 5man rush flushed throws short to Holmes/ 7thplay 3man rush (nickel)complete to ward +8/ 8thplay BLITZ run to willie -1/9th play 5man BLITZ Quick pass to Nat- THIS IS WHAT YOU MUST DO DONT HOLD IT-+17/10th play run to willie +6/11thplay 6man BLITZ willie 0 gain/12th play-7man BLITZ BEN BOBBLES THE BALL HITS HIM IN CHEST LOOKING AT BLITZ TIMING IS OFF throws ball in dirt 4th down= fg. Now Ben was blitzed a total of 4Times on that 1st drive with completions of 6 and 17 and 2 balls thrown short (50%)

Byrons 1st play 4man rush NO BLITZ complete to Nate +11/ 2nd play 3man rush (nickel) bad pass to nate/3rd play 7man BLITZ Quick pass to Heath for 21 (longest gain of the day)/ 4th play 5man BLITZ complete to Heath/ 5th play 6man BLITZ pass to nate incomplete in endzone/6th play 5 man BLITZ pass complete to Nate/7th play 5man BLITZ=sacked/8th play 3man rush (nickel) no blitz ball in dirt. So Byron was blitzed 4 times and beat it 3 times (75%) and mind you the man hadnt played all game and wasnt properly warmed up (must include variables) and keep in mind one of Bens passes to beat the blitz was a screen to Holmes behind the line. Byron beat it by getting the ball down the field. he was 75% against the blitz to Bens 50% and Ben got WORSE as the game went on. FACT.

Again, not saying Byron is better but you asked me to compare the drives so I did and not froma NFL.com play by play perspective but by a blitz perspective. I'm not alluding to the fact that Byron is better, I'm saying BEN IS but when it comes to HANDLING PRESSURE BYRON AND CHARLIE ARE. Are we clear now? Pressure bothers Ben and that BOTHERS ME. You asked what do I want? I want Ben to conquer this fear of pressure, I want him to speed up with the game and be able to play FAST. I want to see him be the complete Qb so I can pit my guy against the punk patriots and Colts guy. Right now my pats and colts friends are killing me. I cant say "Ben is better than your qb with the weaknesses he has now. Thats what I want, I want my qb to be complete and to fix that ONE weakness in his game. I hope we are clear now

~Signed the Troll Rymes with my favorite coach Noll
By the way why would a Troll record Steeler game and disect them etc??? Just wondering..........

1) Brittle. You could not last one measly paragraph without lowering the bar. I repeat, for the last time, please do not resort to derision...or any/all conversations we have will be over.

2) Before we move on to other topics. Again, let’s complete this one thing first:
You say that Byron handled the pressure better than Ben.
Byron had three incompletions and a sack when he was pressured...which is exactly what happened to Ben (when Ben was pressured).

And, as I already stated,
--Whether or not Ben faced a pass-rush on the first drive is irrelevant to my point: Byron did not handle the pressure any better.
--I am no longer comparing Ben vs. Byron on the first drive...I am talking about Byron handling the pressure.

3) Brady & Manning faced blitzes & eight-man fronts (see their games against the Chargers). When those two are hit in the face, they look mighty pedestrian, too.

4) When have I ever said that Ben does not need to get the ball out of his hand quicker???
On that, we agree.

Ben holds the ball far too long, and does not throw the ball away.
You say it is due to a lack of mental prowess.
I say that it is do to him trying to do too much.

Take for example the safety.
Ben probably should have thrown the ball away (to avoid the sack/safety).
Yet, Ben tried to keep the play alive...and if he had indeed completed that pass to Mewelde Moore, we would all be applauding him.

The aforementioned example is what Ben is in a nutshell: he tries to do far too much, instead of simply throwing the ball away.
In fact, before this season, I do not think that ever saw him throw the ball away (e.g. his one incompletion in game one, was a wise throw away).

(Which, is also my answer to the Batch vs. Ben debate.)

5) The SuperBowl...admittedly, a poor game.
Conversely, the three play-offs games, on the road, against great teams, he led that team.

6) Do you agree, that Ben is one of the winningest quarterbacks in this league. The dude wins when he is playing...period. Whether or not he is able to pass for 300 yards or 150 yards, when he plays, the Steelers win.

And, if he does not handle pressure well (which is still under debate: you say it is due to “dumbness” and I say it is due to “trying to do too much”), would it not make sense ot ensure that he feels no pressure.
Building a bigger, better offensive line would be a good starting point...right?

7) As far as dumbing down the play-book for Ben, that is 100% true. Arians has. (Whereas, Whisenhunt routinely told him to learn the entire play book...and as you said, yelled at Ben for not knowing the entire thing).

With Arians, Ben only had about 18 plays in his arsenal (at some point). They split the field in half, and he only looked for his first read on that half of the field (before dumping off to the RB).
Then, as he grew more comfortable, they started adding reads (two reads before dumping off, and 22 plays...third reads and 25 plays...).

What Arians did is what ones does as a coach: help someone who is confused by your system. From my experience with young children (and teenagers) is that yelling rarely, if ever, helps...and most of the time, it actually hurts.

Lastly, to anyone who compares Manning’s 400 plays, and that that is better than Ben knowing 35 (or so) plays...the Dallas Cowboys in the 1990s had four running plays in their repertoire...they just executed them extremely well. In other words, if Ben has 35 (or so) passing plays that he can complete very well, there is no need for another 30...or 100...or 350.

8) Thank you for clarifying your position. Makes sense now.
Again, coaching him the correct way can help Ben's weakness (which, again you say is “dumdness” and I say is “trying to do too much”...which will will continue to discuss).

Gotta go.

[Scalaid6 Profile]

You seem like an intelligent guy but somehow you have me calling Ben DUMB. I never called Ben dumb. Honestly, I dont think ANY player in the NFL is dumb ESPECIALLY Qbs. have you heard those plays? Ben is not dumb HOWEVER, when pressured you have to admit you have to think QUICKER and make instant decisions THATS where Ben is hurting the team. I agree, yes he tries to do too much but he has to learn to take what the defense gives him (hes a 5th year starter ITS TIME). I see Ben improving in ALOT of areas but the one area that EVERY coach sees is how he handles the pressure or how he doesnt. The film doesnt lie. He will step up and run right so what do they do? They run defensive line stunts and contain him in the pocket, add pressure up the gut and hes a sitting duck. Instead of always bailing on a play he needs to stand in the pocket and hit his hot routes, this beats the blitz. TRUST ME. I WANT Bend to have success. If He has success WE have success, if he doesnt we lose more times than not. In the NFL Qbs are not pitchers so you cant say Bens win loss record is 15-1 etc like they did his rookie season. This is an unofficial stat. How much did Ben do his rookie season? It was all about Bettis/Duce/THE LINE and the D. The Steelers however, win alot but I agree Ben wins most of his starts bo so does Tomlin/Cowher but you guys dont give them a pass like Ben. In regards to our line, we have one of the biggest lines in the league, again, the line is NOT an issue until Ben is behind center (well documented). Ben is our franchise Qb I just want him to get it together because when he does nobody can beat us and whats wrong with wanting that??

[steelerette Profile]

So far, nobody here has seen anything of the like. All we've seen over and over is that obnoxious sig that makes our star QB look like he has downs and the rantings of an ignorant knee-jerk Ben hater...

Yes, so:

I agree, Nel. It's getting very frustrating seeing him spew his hatred of Ben in almost every single thread. Same words, different threads. Troll indeed.

[Scalaid6 Profile]

I keep getting called a Troll but it seems the TROLL knows more about the Steelers than all of you. I guess there is something to be said about being a Troll. Again, I dont hate Ben, I hate how he plays at times. When Ben plays up to his potential I applaud him but with our schedule this year we will CERTAINLY see what hes made of. But I know you homers will NOT blame Ben you will end up blaming those guys on the sideline with the headsets on. TYPICAL.

[darthsteel Profile]

big ben = top 3 qb in nfl

[Scalaid6 Profile]

1. Brady 2.Manning 3. Palmer 4. Manning 5. Rivers 6. Brees 7.Ben

[Teegre Profile]

You seem like an intelligent guy but somehow you have me calling Ben DUMB. I never called Ben dumb. Honestly, I dont think ANY player in the NFL is dumb ESPECIALLY Qbs. have you heard those plays? Ben is not dumb HOWEVER, when pressured you have to admit you have to think QUICKER and make instant decisions THATS where Ben is hurting the team. I agree, yes he tries to do too much but he has to learn to take what the defense gives him (hes a 5th year starter ITS TIME). I see Ben improving in ALOT of areas but the one area that EVERY coach sees is how he handles the pressure or how he doesnt. The film doesnt lie. He will step up and run right so what do they do? They run defensive line stunts and contain him in the pocket, add pressure up the gut and hes a sitting duck. Instead of always bailing on a play he needs to stand in the pocket and hit his hot routes, this beats the blitz. TRUST ME. I WANT Bend to have success. If He has success WE have success, if he doesnt we lose more times than not. In the NFL Qbs are not pitchers so you cant say Bens win loss record is 15-1 etc like they did his rookie season. This is an unofficial stat. How much did Ben do his rookie season? It was all about Bettis/Duce/THE LINE and the D. The Steelers however, win alot but I agree Ben wins most of his starts bo so does Tomlin/Cowher but you guys dont give them a pass like Ben. In regards to our line, we have one of the biggest lines in the league, again, the line is NOT an issue until Ben is behind center (well documented). Ben is our franchise Qb I just want him to get it together because when he does nobody can beat us and whats wrong with wanting that??

How Bruce Arians Has Taught/Will Teach Ben to Throw the Ball Away

Let us go back two years. The entire playbook was overwhelming. So, what Arians did was to go through the playbook (with Ben) and choose all of the plays with which Ben felt comfortable and/or ran very successfully.
That turned out to be about 18 plays.

Using that as the starting point, they had added more plays, as Ben has become more successful.

Similarly, Ben was trying to go through ALL of his reads...and was, in turn, holding on to the ball way, way too long. What Arians did was to tell Ben to throw it away after his first read...(and eventually, after his second read...and then after his third read...).

Again, using that as the starting point, they had added more reads, as Ben has become more successful.

When Ben faces the blitz, when he tends to do is one of the two following things:
1) Hold onto the ball, trying to make something out of nothing.
2) Revert back to trying to make ALL of his reads (instead of doing what Arians has taught him: dump it off/throw it away after your first read).

To Ben’s credit (& why I think he is an amazing quarterback) is the fact that Ben is, more often than not, able to create something out of nothing.

In other words, I do not feel it is a quickness issue, but rather a stubbornness issue (not the defiant type of stubbornness...but, more of the “I will indeed complete this pass; I will not throw it away” type of stubborness).
In other words, Ben might suffer from having too much confidence: he thinks that he can complete every single pass.

Brett Favre went through this same type of dilemma...well into his career (i.e. beyond Brett’s first five years).
Yet, no one in their right mind would ever change Brett’s demeanor.

That said, Holmgren beat it into Brett’s head to “throw it away.” And, Brett did...to some extent...and was a better quarterback because of it.
But, when the pressure is on, Brett still tries to make the “miracle” throw.
Likewise, Ben tries to make the “miracle” play.

Mind you, Ben does not think that he can “thread the needle” (which is Brett’s mentality). Ben thinks that he can “escape the pass-rush” and/or “withstand the hit” and still complete the throw.
And, again, Ben is more often than not able to make good on these attempts.

In summation, Ben does not necessarily need to make quicker decisions; he just need to learn to “admit” that sometimes he has to throw the ball away. Similarly, Ben has to learn to dump off, as opposed to always trying to go for the “big play” (e.g. sometimes a three yard gain is better than getting sacked while trying to throw for a 12 yard gain). This is akin to “a bird in the hand...”

As far as Ben’s win-loss record is concerned, obviously he has been surrounded by a stellar set of players: his receivers (as a rookie) were Plax, ARE, and Hines. Similarly, his line was made up of Hartings (stud), Faneca (in his prime), and a younger/healthier Marvel Smith. His running backs were Duce, Bettis, and FWP.
In other words, that team was loaded.

But, still, he wins more games (by any means necessary) than any quarterback I have seen in the past twenty years.
He is a winner.

Since we are on the topic of the O-line, the first three years that Ben played, there was not as many sacks. Then...ugh.
Hartwig is no Hartings.
Kemoeatu is no Faneca.
The Marvel of 2005 was healthy and young.
And, Russ Grimm is no longer coaching this group.

In turn, for the past two season, Ben has played behind an inferior line. When LBs and DEs were breaking through and forcing Ben out of the pocket, instead of throwing the ball away, Ben has been determined to make something out of nothing.

Furthermore, since Ben has become the leader of the team, he has felt compelled to make these types of plays. His first three years, he merely went along for the ride. But, now that he is the leader of this team, his determination and/or need to “create a play” has been exacerbated.
And, in turn, he has held onto the ball longer and more often.

Does this make sense?
(This is not a rhetorical question...truthfully, is this making sense?)

In other words...
Batch behind the same line: No sacks.
Ben behind the line same line: holds the ball too long, in the attempt to complete a pass on every single snap of the ball.

Again, it is an over-confidence issue...and it is not likely to go away....which is not necessarily a bad thing.
Just ask Brett Favre.

[Scalaid6 Profile]

I understand your point but its all SPECULATION. ANY annalyst, coach or strategist will tell you the way to beat pressure is the get the ball out of your hand quickly and NOT throw it away. I will concede that throwing is away has some benefit at times. Ben DOES keep many plays alive with effective mobility, not Michael Vick mobility but effective mobility, good lateral movement. Ben wins can be attributed to the management as they stack the team with talent around him. You guys make the mistake of crediting wins to qbs. This is not baseball its not done that way in football. How many wins were credited to Trent Dilfer when the Ravens won the bowl? How bout Eli last season? Even the hated Pats lost only one game last season and the wins were rightfully attributed to the patriots as they should and not Brady. You guys cant have it both ways. If you credit Ben for wins then you MUST credit him with losses, why the double standard?

I appreciate your post, I really do but I watch every game as I'm sure you do too but bro honestly I think Ben gets confused when he gets pressured. It seems the game is too fast for him. I also disagree with you. I think fanaca is one of the most overrated lineman in the history of our team. Dont get me wrong, he was a player of value early in his career but the last 5? Not a good player. The Jags, Ravens and Browns exposed him as a has been, thats why management didnt sign him. I like Kemo, I think he is our best lineman, hes mean, good hands, good balance and will be a star but I agree he is green. Marvel Smith SUCKS and so does simmons but they are big and operable.

At the end of the day I'm glad you admitted the obvious, that they dummied down the playbook for Ben. Alot of guys are in denial to the facts. I hope your not one who thinks I hate Ben because nothing is further from the truth but when he underachieves my team does too and that is all.

[Teegre Profile]

I understand your point but its all SPECULATION. ANY annalyst, coach or strategist will tell you the way to beat pressure is the get the ball out of your hand quickly and NOT throw it away. I will concede that throwing is away has some benefit at times. Ben DOES keep many plays alive with effective mobility.........Ben because nothing is further from the truth but when he underachieves my team does too and that is all.

1) You can call what I have written speculation, but I have heard both Bruce Arians and Ben Roethlisberger say (on talk radio) that this is indeed exactly what has been going on:
-using plays with which Ben has been successful
-adding more plays as Ben feels more success
-slowly adding more reads as Ben gets more comfortable
&
-throwing the ball away when there is nothing open.

The last one, Ben admits, he has had a tough time doing.

And as far as looking confused, watch the sack at around the 9:00 mark in the second quarter of the Eagles game.
The rushers come in...(before Ben has even completed his drop).
Ben locates Miller, in man coverage, against a FS.
Again, the pressure is in his face.
Ben easily could have thrown the ball away. Instead, he steps to the side...trying to buy some time. Alas, he can not step into his throw...resulting in a sack.
At no point does Ben look confused. Additionally, he makes the correct read (the TE). If Ben makes that throw, he looks like a hero (and Heath gains many, many yards). Alas, by trying to buy time (instead of throwing the ball away) he gets sacked.

2) It is this same determination (to make a play) that I credit Ben for the wins which he has achieved.

And, as far as getting credit/blame for wins & losses, if anything, Ben does not get much credit (outside of Pittsburgh) for most of his wins. For example, the only thing people bring up about the 2005 play-off run was Ben’s poor play in the SuperBowl. Rarely does anyone (outside of Pittsburgh) acknowledge, let alone refer to, Ben’s stellar prior three games...on the road...against heavily favored play-off teams.

Also, as you have mentioned: “same players, different result.”
The 2003 Steelers had basically the same personnel as the 2004 team, yet the 2003 team did not win; whereas, the 2004 team destroyed the Patriots & Eagles in back-to-back weeks...and went 15-1.
The difference...Ben vs. Tommy.
Yet, almost anyone you ask will tell you that Ben was surrounded by stellar talent (yet, realistically, so was Tommy).

Again, Ben probably receives a little too much credit with Steelers fans (myself included). But, he also receives very little credit for any of his wins, from anyone who is not a Steelers fan. Somewhere in the middle is the truth: Ben has been/is an up-&-coming quarterback, who has played on great teams.

3) As far as calling it “dumbing down” I see it more as adjusting the play-calling to match what is successful for your quarterback. For example, there have been far less reverses and trick plays in the past two years, and far more passes to the tight ends.
In other words, if A & D are successful 85% of the time, and B & C are only successful 45% of the time, why even run B & C???

Similarly, as Jimmy Johnson once said, if you run a play to absolute perfection, no defense in the world will be able to stop it. The problem is execution: rarely are plays run to perfection.

In turn, if you have a play that is 85% effective...and you practice it until it approaches 100%, you will eventually have a play that is nearly unstoppable...
...which is what Arians is trying to do with Ben: improve the execution through choosing plays with which Ben had had marked success.

As I have previously mentioned, this philosophy worked wonders for the Cowboys.

Lastly, adjusting the play-book is what LeBeau did for Troy Polamalu his first year...then they added more...and more...and more.
I know, I know: it is Ben’s fifth year. But, Ben never had the play-book adjusted for him when Whiz was here; Whiz just told Ben to learn the entire play-book (and then he yelled at Ben for not knowing all of it).
In other words, this is basically Ben’s third year of receiving actual instruction from his coaches.
The one element that coaches often forget to do is coach...and Arians (to his credit) it indeed taking the time to coach Ben.

[Note: Kordell’s one good year (2001)...Pittsburgh had hired a QB coach.]

[Scalaid6 Profile]

I agree with MOST of your points and I can really appreciate a blogger like you because you are objective and have the type of heightened consciousness that emanates from a open mind. What I deem as speculation is your statement that Ben is too stubborn to throw the ball away. This is speculatory at best. I will agree that he tries to make plays too hard but to be honest thats a plus not a minus. The reason I say he is confused and bothered by the rush is because I watch him ESPECIALLY when we play the Jags. He doesnt step into throws he steps out of them trying to get out of the way of contact, that is a recipe for disaster and has been.

Bens progress has been witnessed from a clearer perspective from within myself. I acknowledge his strides just like I acknowledge his shortcomings. In regards to the sack at the 9:00. Look at the play. The 2 inside backers SHOW BLITZ, at this time Ben has to hot route to a quick pass, EXACTLY like he did at the 6:47 mark of the same qtr as he hit Nate in the flats. Now go to the 6:00 mark same quarter. This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about in his play. The Eagles SHOW blitz and Ben drops back and instead of hitting his hot route HINES, he takes his eyes off the field and attaches them to the rush and is sacked PLUS he fumbles, EAGLES BALL. Please look at that play and tell me Hines is not open on a little button hook across the middle. Ben has to throw that ball.

I disagree I think Ben is BELOVED across the league by the players and media alike and I understand it, Ben is a likeable guy. Very wholesome, sincere, honest, down to earth, hes a great guy. By the way what was the hive thingy on the left side of Bens neck in the game? Did one of the Eagles pinch him or something? Sorry, I have a great eye for detail.

I mentioned "same players" in regard to the SACKS not in regards to the wins, that is very different. I believe Tommy too was rattled by the blitz (did you know he actually called the steelers brass and offered his services when he heard Ben got in the motorcyle wreck? lol NO THANKS TAMMY). Tammy barely ever threw to Plax whereas Ben looked for him. I remember the Pats/Eagles wins I believe they were back to back games. Our D was all over Mcnabb and Deshea picked Brady for 6 after Ben hit Plax but we couldnt duplicate the feat in the playoffs, again they rattled Ben (footnote: They also were cheating) Ben WAS surrounded by stellar talent as I documented on a different thread. And in Tommys Defense we changed our philosophy and became a pass 1st team and the balance was not there. Although, it was pretty much the same players it was NOT the same gameplan and that made a difference as you can tell by the records. That and the fact that Tammy was a fragile BUM. Ben is NO BUM LET ME BE CLEAR.


Please dont bring up Kordell

[steelerette Profile]

1. Brady 2.Manning 3. Palmer 4. Manning 5. Rivers 6. Brees 7.Ben

[Scalaid6 Profile]

Nothing wrong with being Diametrically Opposed

[Stillustronic Profile]

I agree with MOST of your points and I can really appreciate a blogger like you because you are objective and have the type of heightened consciousness that emanates from a open mind.

WOW! You must not be the other half of the people George Carlin jokes about. We are truly blessed. Have you talked with Lloydrules yet? He puts himself up there with you.