View topic - No Soup for The Tubby Tailback

[StillMill Profile]

Yes indeed. As I have been saying for YEARs -- dating back to 2003 -- there is no place on the Pro Football HoF for a self-aggrandizing, fat-assed RB. No room at'all. No soup for Big Jerome !! LMAO !!

[isfry Profile]

Jeez. How's your Pulitzer look on the mantle, Mill?

[Pommah Profile]

Bettis' self-aggrandizing back then is minor self-promotion by today's players' standards.

The issue is, does a guy who was never really a #1 back in the league, but a guy who was pretty much always a top-5 guy, for a very long time, deserving of the HoF?

To me, if Curtis Martin is in, Jerome should be too. Different style of running, but both accumulated their stats in the exact same manner, by being a top-tier guy for a long time.

[StillMill Profile]

Jeez. How's your Pulitzer look on the mantle, Mill?

doin' fine, thanx !

[StillMill Profile]

Bettis' self-aggrandizing back then is minor self-promotion by today's players' standards.

The issue is, does a guy who was never really a #1 back in the league, but a guy who was pretty much always a top-5 guy, for a very long time, deserving of the HoF?

To me, if Curtis Martin is in, Jerome should be too. Different style of running, but both accumulated their stats in the exact same manner, by being a top-tier guy for a long time.

Hmm, not quite. Martin was a far, far superior pass catcher and RAC runner. Furthermore, The Bust ran behind 2 (TWO) Hall of Fame blockers, assuming Faneca gets inducted. Plus a vast array of other good blockers, to include John Jackson, Searcy, Sweeney, Hartings, Strelzyk, et al. Bettis nearly always had a superb defense, which kept his O in the game or in the lead. Martin was far and away the better all around RB. Please, let's not dishonor Martin by comparing The Tubby Tailback, aka The FatFuk RB, to Martin.

[Pommah Profile]

The charges leveled against Bettis for not being in the HoF tend to follow along two lines: 1, that his stats are not good enough, and 2, that he wasn't honored enough with pro bowl appearances, all-pro honors, etc. during his tenure, as indicative of being one of the top guys at his position during his playing days.

I selected Martin for comparison in that they were contemporaries. Statistically, as runners, both are similar, with similar career yardage, yard per attempt, career yards, etc. Also, Bettis went to one more pro bowl (6) and had one more first team all-pro selection than Martin (2).

It is true that Bettis does not have the same level of pass catching stats. But he couldn't, he wasn't used that way by the Steelers. Martin averaged almost 3 receptions a game, Bettis only one. Bettis' career yards per reception is actually slightly higher than Martin's. And in Jerome's first two years, the Rams did use him as a receiving running back, and he performed quite admirably. Bettis had 537 yards in the two years he was allowed to catch passes at a receiver-like 9.4 YPR, vs. Martin's 594 yards but only a 7.8 YPR during his first two years. Seems a wash. I don't think it's fair to punish Bettis for being forced into specialization. It's like saying Heath Miller isn't a good TE because he doesn't have the stats, but we know the TE hasn't figured into the Steelers' plans for most of his career.

I think the point about Bettis having a better O-line is fair. So let me offer up this comparison: Bettis has better running stats on almost every measure, and similar catching stats, and far more pro bowl/all-pro selection honors than John Riggins, who was the same type runner, is in the HoF, and ran behind one of the best O-lines ever in the latter third of his career, and decent ones the rest of the time. The Redskins' record during Riggins' tenure was 142-76-1, a winning percentage of 65%; the Steelers' record during Bettis' time was 109-66-1, for a winning percentage of 62%. Throw in Jerome's two years with the truly awful Rams, that percentage drops to 57%.

I think comparison to other players "in the hall" is a fair way to assess whether a candidate should make it in, and using that criterion, Bettis should be in.

[Ohio Profile]

Yes indeed. As I have been saying for YEARs -- dating back to 2003 -- there is no place on the Pro Football HoF for a self-aggrandizing, fat-assed RB. No room at'all. No soup for Big Jerome !! LMAO !!

I agree that Bettis does not belong to the HoF. But Martin does not belong also.

The first memory that comes in my mind is his fumble against the Colts... That is not what I call a great memory...

[SoCal Stiller Profile]

The charges leveled against Bettis for not being in the HoF tend to follow along two lines: 1, that his stats are not good enough, and 2, that he wasn't honored enough with pro bowl appearances, all-pro honors, etc. during his tenure, as indicative of being one of the top guys at his position during his playing days.

I selected Martin for comparison in that they were contemporaries. Statistically, as runners, both are similar, with similar career yardage, yard per attempt, career yards, etc. Also, Bettis went to one more pro bowl (6) and had one more first team all-pro selection than Martin (2).

It is true that Bettis does not have the same level of pass catching stats. But he couldn't, he wasn't used that way by the Steelers. Martin averaged almost 3 receptions a game, Bettis only one. Bettis' career yards per reception is actually slightly higher than Martin's. And in Jerome's first two years, the Rams did use him as a receiving running back, and he performed quite admirably. Bettis had 537 yards in the two years he was allowed to catch passes at a receiver-like 9.4 YPR, vs. Martin's 594 yards but only a 7.8 YPR during his first two years. Seems a wash. I don't think it's fair to punish Bettis for being forced into specialization. It's like saying Heath Miller isn't a good TE because he doesn't have the stats, but we know the TE hasn't figured into the Steelers' plans for most of his career.

I think the point about Bettis having a better O-line is fair. So let me offer up this comparison: Bettis has better running stats on almost every measure, and similar catching stats, and far more pro bowl/all-pro selection honors than John Riggins, who was the same type runner, is in the HoF, and ran behind one of the best O-lines ever in the latter third of his career, and decent ones the rest of the time. The Redskins' record during Riggins' tenure was 142-76-1, a winning percentage of 65%; the Steelers' record during Bettis' time was 109-66-1, for a winning percentage of 62%. Throw in Jerome's two years with the truly awful Rams, that percentage drops to 57%.

I think comparison to other players "in the hall" is a fair way to assess whether a candidate should make it in, and using that criterion, Bettis should be in.

Excellent post my friend. I personally think it's a coin flip, but I like the discussion.

I just realized the irony of using the term "coin flip" as it relates to Bettis!