View topic - Stillers-Raidas Postgame Analysis and Grades

[StillMill Profile]

Stillers-Raidas Postgame Analysis and Grades has been posted by Still Mill at Stillers.com.

[LenSherwood Profile]

OK, season is over. Here is the question for everyone. How long will the rebuilding process take? The Steelers have lost to some very bottom feeding teams so far this year and don't seem to be getting better. You just cannot be considered an elite team with that offense, never mind an aging defense lacking impact playmakers. You have to score now in the NFL, defenses just cannot do what they used to. And the Steeler offense is just plain bad.

So will it be 1...2...3 years of this?

And who do you replace Haley with? LeBeau? Tomlin? Colbert?

[Pommah Profile]

Well I was one of those who thought we would have a rebound 12-4 year. So wtf do I know?

But at this point I'd shit can the whole thing. 5-year rebuilding plan. Meaning, every player currently over 27 has got to go within the next few years, they will be too old to help out. Trade Ben to some team that thinks it's a QB away from a SB run for a slew of draft pics. Get what you can for the likes of Woodley, Hood, Worilds, etc., if anything; if not just don't re-up their contracts. Let Pola, Heath, Ike, Clark retire gracefully (so the youngsters can see an example of what they can achieve) but let them all know it's going to happen within a couple of years or it won't be "gracefully". If there are no good QB picks coming up, just let Gradkowski play for a couple of years. Christ we made the Super Bowl with Neil O'Donnell and the AFC championship with Kordell; there is no need to rush. This is going to take time.

I'd shitcan the entire coaching staff and the front office people in power. To some extent it is not Tomlin's fault, he was not allowed to be his own man, had to keep Dick and Arians, and then it appears had Haley forced on him. But he has the shit smear on him now, so he's got to go.

You know who I might consider for HC? Cheesenhut. If not for the greatest defensive play in Super Bowl history, he would have won SB XLIII, putting together an incredible string of upsets to do it, and we'd all be talking differently about the man. He knows the Steelers, knows how to do it, and after his stint with the Cardinals, how not to do it. I think he could be worth another shot.

[pinpon Profile]

Synopsis: Obviously, for all intents and purposes, the season is over. At 2-5, there is simply too much ground to cover in too little time. Mistakes made early in the season still aren’t rectified, and at this point, they’re not going to be. The offense isn’t prolific enough and the defense is too soft, too inept, and too meek. It all adds up to a shit record and a well deserved place in the AFC North basement. Of course, only by finishing with a 4-win season will this myopic, head-in-the-sand franchise make the changes that simply must be made and that are long overdue. - See more at: http://www.stillers.com/Article/View/3c ... rMvWz.dpuf[i][/i]

Mill your synopsis says it all.

[Steelers4Tim Profile]

OK, season is over. Here is the question for everyone. How long will the rebuilding process take? The Steelers have lost to some very bottom feeding teams so far this year and don't seem to be getting better. You just cannot be considered an elite team with that offense, never mind an aging defense lacking impact playmakers. You have to score now in the NFL, defenses just cannot do what they used to. And the Steeler offense is just plain bad.

So will it be 1...2...3 years of this?

And who do you replace Haley with? LeBeau? Tomlin? Colbert?

To be honest, we could actually replace Tomlin with Rich Kotite.....he would be an upgrade at this point. Tomlin is either not getting his point across to the team or they are not accepting his point. They say he's a "great" guy. If he is, he'll just step down and leave with class. Time to go Mike, for real.

[pinpon Profile]

In response to Len Sherwood and Pommah:

It is time to rebuild. Ben has moments of ineptitude followed by moments of skill. My biggest fear is that they diddle daddle along instead of just hitting the reset button. Ben still has some value. Get what you can for him. He won't win anything for us anymore, unfortunately!

[Ohio Profile]

In response to Len Sherwood and Pommah:

It is time to rebuild. Ben has moments of ineptitude followed by moments of skill. My biggest fear is that they diddle daddle along instead of just hitting the reset button. Ben still has some value. Get what you can for him. He won't win anything for us anymore, unfortunately!

Pinpon before rebuilding we need to clean up the house. I say throw EVERYBODY OUT. Then you start from zero and give people some 3 4 years to see their worth.

The Game has changed a lot from Ben's first years in the league. Just think In 2005 he had 130 èpass attempts. This year he has 260. Let's say the obvious : WITH BEN WE HAVE NEVER BEEN A HIGH SCORING TEAM. When was the last time we put 30 points on the board ?

Go look at this week winners :

Carolina 31
Detroi 31
San Fra 42
KC 23 ( against the Clowns and their back up backup qb )
NE 27
NO 35
Cin 49
Oak 49
Ari 27
Den 45
Jets 15
GB 44
Sea 14

It makes 5 games won scoring more than 40.

I will make it very easy :

Colbert needs to go. Cannot draft consistently. He was given plenty time to prove his worth.

Tomlin needs to go. He might be a better playoff playcaller than Cowher ( which should be pretty easy...). Everything else is worsening. Which player did he develop ?

LeBeau needs to go. With this new CBA it is of outmost importance to play rookies and second year players. If you play only the veteran you will quickly be in cap hell. Just like we do... Wonder why ? Not giving up on Spence and drafting only a 6th rounder for ILB hit him heavily this year ( with Foote going down the first week).

Haley needs to go. We have no offense. We have no clock managment. How many years does it take to figure out the clock ? As Mill pointed out that long 9 minutes drive, down by 3 scores, was perferct for... the Raiders. Ben doesn't know how to manage the clock in 2 minutes drill. It is either a spike or a useless Timeout. What about talking about it at next Christmas party ?

Offensive Line Coach needs to go. I do not know his name. Doesn't matter. For all the Zone Blocking Scheme BullShit reality is we are one dimensional. And the one dimension we have is not even good enough...

Ben needs to go. He is holding the ball too long. He cannot find the open receiver as he used to. His clock managment his pitiful.

Regarding how long it may take to be back on track my answer is : Depends who will be guiding us during the rebuilding.

If the abovementioned are still with us next training camp is going to be a long ride. The Rooney made the same mistake with Noll. I know that stability pays off. But only if you have the right people. We have people that are doing the same mistakes over and over. Colbert and his useless drafts. Tomlin and his lack of motivation. LeBeau and his rookie benching. Haley and his useless offense. Ben and his ball holding, and time waste and mismangemtn.

Steelers nation, if you truly are a Steelers fan, HOPE THAT WE LOSE ALL THE REMAING GAMES. As sweet as another win against the Ratbirds might be, we need to dump this useless managment and start next year brand new.

Let's not forget where the KANSAS CITY CHIEF were last year. Let's not forget where the cleveland CLOWNS were 10 years ago. They are still there. Improving slightly this year after what ?

[isfry Profile]

OK. I hung on to my Pollyanna, head-in-the-sand denial long enough. I hope we lose every single game from here on out, and badly. I hope that everybody with the words "coach" or "Colbert" on their name is looking for a job by New Years. When it is clear that I invest more time and emotional and mental energy into the upcoming games than the 53 guys and coaches who all get paid a king's ransom to play a kids' game, it is time for a house cleaning. Not the kind where you have a lady with a feather duster give the place a once-over, either. I'm talking about a circus tent over the top, fumigate the entire place and kill whatever's inside, then start from scratch.

In my four decades of fanmanship this has been the most pisspoor, lackluster, embarrassing display I have EVER seen. I think they should wear white uniforms for the rest of the season. They don't deserve the black and gold. They just don't. I was at the game in Oakland and the assholes from Pennsylvania won the award for best costume, because they arrived disguised as a professional football team. I wish I had better seats so I could have spit on them.

[Pommah Profile]

fry. Dude. Wow.

Worse than 1988? That team was 2-10 at one point. Bubby Brister at QB, 11 TD passes, 14 picks, 65 QB rating. Merril Hoge as the leading rusher with 700. Beat by the Super Bowl-bound Bungles 42-7.

Looks like we are on that path though. I live in New England and I am NOT looking forward to catching more shit from Pats fans. Look how crappy that team is but they manage to win due to their coach and QB.

[Ohio Profile]

fry. Dude. Wow.

Worse than 1988? That team was 2-10 at one point. Bubby Brister at QB, 11 TD passes, 14 picks, 65 QB rating. Merril Hoge as the leading rusher with 700. Beat by the Super Bowl-bound Bungles 42-7.

Looks like we are on that path though. I live in New England and I am NOT looking forward to catching more shit from Pats fans. Look how crappy that team is but they manage to win due to their coach and QB.

Keep firm Pommah. 3 More years and they are going down. When Brady leaves Belichick will follow. Then you will free

[isfry Profile]

[quote="Pommah"]fry. Dude. Wow.

Worse than 1988? That team was 2-10 at one point. Bubby Brister at QB, 11 TD passes, 14 picks, 65 QB rating. Merril Hoge as the leading rusher with 700. Beat by the Super Bowl-bound Bungles 42-7.
quote]

Yup. It's worse. Consider this: in the eight years leading up to the 1988 season (which was horrible, I grant you that) after the Super Bowl in 79 we lost Bradshaw et al and made the playoffs three times in the 80's prior to '88. We went one and done in '82 and '83, and lost in the conference champ in '84. By contrast, in the eight years leading up to 2013 the Steelers went to three super bowls, winning two and losing one by only 6 points.

This team has no fucking excuse for being as bad as they are. The front office and the coaching staff has pissed away an opportunity (or several) to put more rings on the fingers of the Steelers while the raw talent was still on the roster. After this shit show of a season, even if there is a housecleaning, we have five years before we are relevant maybe ten before we can hope to be dominant again. It's inexcusable. I'm disgusted.

[PGHeaven Profile]

I was one of the first to state 4-12 season. My basis for this was top down analysis. Starting with the social activist Dan Rooney. My hope is that this Obama ass smoocher gets appointed to some castle somewhere where there is no phone or internet so that his DNA is completely Fucking scrubbed form everything Steeler. Then we must conduct a STFU Dan campaign so that the rest of the Rooneys get the message and get back to basics.

Then we must fire Colbert based solely on his drafting retardation. Then we MUST trade Ben and go for Mariota in the next draft. We will let the next GM decide upon his staff. I think that we have CULTURE problem in the Steelers organization and I think it comes from Dan "hope and change" Rooney. Wish we could fire that Fhead

[Pommah Profile]

That you were, PGH. I thought you were just being your usual happy-go-lucky-self but you nailed it.

So you like the throwin' Somoan Mariota, huh? I'll try to catch a Ducks game on TV. Though I really think a running QB in the NFL is a passing fancy - the key to success is a quick-reading drop back highly accurate passer. Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, none of them runs unless they absolutely have to. Lemme know when one of these "athletic" QB's actually wins a championship.

[Ohio Profile]

That you were, PGH. I thought you were just being your usual happy-go-lucky-self but you nailed it.

So you like the throwin' Somoan Mariota, huh? I'll try to catch a Ducks game on TV. Though I really think a running QB in the NFL is a passing fancy - the key to success is a quick-reading drop back highly accurate passer. Peyton, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, none of them runs unless they absolutely have to. Lemme know when one of these "athletic" QB's actually wins a championship.

I agree with you that no running QB will have a long winning career. Mariota remembers Andrew Luck. Throws when he has to throw and runs if he is left with acres of space. He has all the physical tools. Most important is going to be his first Offensive Coordinator. You have to teach the guy to get the results. Ben looks like he lost the clock managment and throw the ball in the stands parts...

[LenSherwood Profile]

There is a good bit of discussion about moving Ben--hell Ohio had a whole post on that subject. You know as this season continues to digress into oblivion, I believe that you can see this point. His play has always been erradict and this tendency has gotten worse. He used to follow brilliant games with complete shit. Now shit seems to be the rule...okay Haley isn't helping. Plus I can't recall but I am sure the end of the contract year balloons like all those huge contracts do--is it 12 million or something like that? Can you occupy that much salary cap space for this result??

Now let's hope that the Steelers don't blow it by winning enough games to be mediocre. For many reasons, not the least of which is draft position, they must suck...

[PGHeaven Profile]

That you were, PGH. I thought you were just being your usual happy-go-lucky-self

[LenSherwood Profile]

fry. Dude. Wow.

Worse than 1988? That team was 2-10 at one point. Bubby Brister at QB, 11 TD passes, 14 picks, 65 QB rating. Merril Hoge as the leading rusher with 700. Beat by the Super Bowl-bound Bungles 42-7.

Looks like we are on that path though. I live in New England and I am NOT looking forward to catching more shit from Pats fans. Look how crappy that team is but they manage to win due to their coach and QB.

I remember that shitstain of a season--do you remember when Bubby got absolutely leveled by an unblocked blitz. He got up looking through the ear hole of his helmet! He is heard on camera. God damn that was a big time hit!!

[Pommah Profile]

Cliff Stoudt 57.9
David Woodley 66.4
Mark Malone 62.4
Scott Campbell 54.3
Bubby Brister 69.8
Steve Bono 59.7
Todd Blackledge 50.5
Neil O'Donnell 81.8
Mike Tomczak 71.6
Jim Miller 57.6
Kordell Stewart 72.3
Kent Graham 63.4
Tommy Maddox 76.7

Gentlemen, this is the list of the quarterbacks who started at least a game for the Steelers between Bradshaw and the arrival of Roethlisberger. Courtesy of Pro-Football-Reference.com, I was also able to get their QB rating for their time with the Steelers. I had forgotten some of these names, blacked out their memories, if you will, like a child from his abuser, because that's not far off from what it was like, what these men inflicted on Steeler fans.

So before we throw BR7 under the bus, realize that it can be a long, long time in the wilderness, with seeming glimpses of the promised land through the trees, only to be dragged back into the caves and swamps. As Sherwood points out, we started a man named "Bubby" whom when watching play, sometimes you just had to laugh because it hurt too much to cry.

For comparison, BR7's career rating is 92.3 through last week. Bradshaw's rating, post 1978 rules changes, looks to be in the 80's.

O'Donnell looks acceptable, and he was able to get the Stillers to a SB. However he left after that year in free agency for the Jets and his QB rating dropped by 20 points, being on a lesser team, before getting knocked out for half a season. He was able to recover his ~80 rating form for a couple of years, before getting dumped by the Bengals for the likes of Akili Smith, how's that for a slap in the face.

I am reminded of the adage, "Be careful what you wish for"

[Ohio Profile]

Cliff Stoudt 57.9
David Woodley 66.4
Mark Malone 62.4
Scott Campbell 54.3
Bubby Brister 69.8
Steve Bono 59.7
Todd Blackledge 50.5
Neil O'Donnell 81.8
Mike Tomczak 71.6
Jim Miller 57.6
Kordell Stewart 72.3
Kent Graham 63.4
Tommy Maddox 76.7

Gentlemen, this is the list of the quarterbacks who started at least a game for the Steelers between Bradshaw and the arrival of Roethlisberger. Courtesy of Pro-Football-Reference.com, I was also able to get their QB rating for their time with the Steelers. I had forgotten some of these names, blacked out their memories, if you will, like a child from his abuser, because that's not far off from what it was like, what these men inflicted on Steeler fans.

So before we throw BR7 under the bus, realize that it can be a long, long time in the wilderness, with seeming glimpses of the promised land through the trees, only to be dragged back into the caves and swamps. As Sherwood points out, we started a man named "Bubby" whom when watching play, sometimes you just had to laugh because it hurt too much to cry.

For comparison, BR7's career rating is 92.3 through last week. Bradshaw's rating, post 1978 rules changes, looks to be in the 80's.

O'Donnell looks acceptable, and he was able to get the Stillers to a SB. However he left after that year in free agency for the Jets and his QB rating dropped by 20 points, being on a lesser team, before getting knocked out for half a season. He was able to recover his ~80 rating form for a couple of years, before getting dumped by the Bengals for the likes of Akili Smith, how's that for a slap in the face.

I am reminded of the adage, "Be careful what you wish for"

I will double check how many games did Blackledge start for us. Cannot remember. But I do not think it should be such a long ride. And I will tell you why.

The League is now a passing one. Which means NO QB = NO W. Examples ? Jaguars, Bucaneers, Vikings, Rams, Houston. If your Quaterback sucks you will not win. Easy. If you don't win you will have a great draft position. If you have a great draft position, maybe you will not take a good / great quaterback the first time, but for sure you will take one after a couple of seasons. The Ponders, the Jax QB ( I do not even remember his name now...) well those QB not performing they will soon enough be replaced. And you know what ? College are producing more capable QBs now than ever. It used to be a different game from College to NFL. Now NFL is copying the College. You have a lot of NFL coaches in the College ranks. More people ready than ever. I think this trend will continue. As I stated in some older post, are long gone those times when a QB would be benched his first two or three seasons. Now it is not even thinkable that a rookie QB sits his first year. The team will play him to see what they got. Only time will tell but I am sure that after Ben we will have a new good / great QB in maximum four years. I say four only to be sure. We might get a Weeden the first time around. Not the second one...

[isfry Profile]

Yes, because if there's anything that has remained solid and dependable it has been our ability to identify and procure quality, reliable roster choices through the draft...