View topic - Can I please get some help here?

[steelslep Profile]

Ok, I need help with something...why do our corners play 10-15 yards off their man? I never played the position so I need someone who has played it, to explain it to me...If you give that much of a cushion, aren't you giving your guy 10-15 yards of momentum? Wouldn't it be better to play man-up, bump at the line and then run with him?

[steelhitter Profile]

The Steelers rarely play man coverage with their corners, instead playing off the receiver in a zone keeping the play in front of them. It's worked fairly well in the past; until this year they were not giving up long pass plays very often. With bump and run pass coverage in the NFL, first you better be a damn good cover corner, which Gay isn't and apparently Taylor isn't any more. Second if the receiver gets by you, you better have some decent safety help, which the Steelers don't have without 43.

[Hi5Steeler Profile]

Ok, I need help with something...why do our corners play 10-15 yards off their man? I never played the position so I need someone who has played it, to explain it to me...If you give that much of a cushion, aren't you giving your guy 10-15 yards of momentum? Wouldn't it be better to play man-up, bump at the line and then run with him?

that is the steeler way. it is how the steelers have remained the number one defense in the entire NFL for years. It is the bend not break philosophy of Dick Lebeau.

It needs stud safeties.

troy is injured......the other safety is old and complements troy....so troy being out actually hurts two positions directly. and more overall considering how troy freelances.

it seems frustrating when there are a ton of injuries but it is the best defensive philosophy in the NFL.

It prevents the big play most of the time...again it needs troy as the lynch pin. what happens if troy leaves steelers you think? we draft an athletic safety in the first round and third.

thats what happens.

[steelslep Profile]

But doesn't playing bump and run prevent short slants, outs and dump offs? I agree that you need safety help but isn't it more difficult to have success on a 50 yard bomb with safety help than it is to get dinked and dunked all day long? I watched the Doncos against the Gints on turkey day and their corners play man up...seemed to work...it is just beyond frustrating to watch every qb have success against our secondary...I would think that playing man allows the DL to get to the QB quicker...

[Jeemie Profile]

But doesn't playing bump and run prevent short slants, outs and dump offs? I agree that you need safety help but isn't it more difficult to have success on a 50 yard bomb with safety help than it is to get dinked and dunked all day long? I watched the Doncos against the Gints on turkey day and their corners play man up...seemed to work...it is just beyond frustrating to watch every qb have success against our secondary...I would think that playing man allows the DL to get to the QB quicker...

LeBeau concedes those short plays...his philosophy is to force long drives becayuse eventually the opposing offense will make a mistake, or the pressure will get there. In the past, with Troy there and the secondary just good enough to cover and tackle to prevent the big play, his philosophy was valid, for the most part.

But the secondary is now just utterly horrendous (AND playing lazy and undisiplined ball to boot), so conceding those passes often now leads to the very big plays the scheme was designed to prevent.

I think Gay could actually be helped if they shrank his cushion to about 5 yards- he's shown in the past he can make plays on the ball, but he's too slow to do that playing 10 yards off.

[steelslep Profile]

Ok, but why do others team play man2man then? It seems to me that allowing short plays is moronic...I am a baseball guy and did not play football-I certainly get it but I still question this type of defense...I would think that after getting SLASHED and RAPED for tons of yards, they would change it up a bit, especially since Troy is out...

[Jeemie Profile]

Ok, but why do others team play man2man then? It seems to me that allowing short plays is moronic...I am a baseball guy and did not play football-I certainly get it but I still question this type of defense...I would think that after getting SLASHED and RAPED for tons of yards, they would change it up a bit, especially since Troy is out...

Now here I agree, and here's where I think LeBeau has dropped the ball. He hasn't appeared to even try and adapt to what he's got now.

However, this secondary is just appalling...I'm not going to excuse Lebeau for not trying, however it's pick your poison out there now.

PS You may disagree with the "bend but don't break" philosophy, but it has worked for the Steelers. Other teams may do it differently, but I'm reasonably sure we don't have the personnel to do it that way...at least, not yet.

[steelhitter Profile]

I agree. I don't think we have the personnel to go to man2man.

I watched the game again on NFL replay. The Steelers defensive zone strategy had at least three chances to work on the Raiders final drive. There were two lobbed ducks that Gay and Taylor made very weak plays on, but Gay should have easily broken up the first and Taylor should have intercepted or knocked it away. And of course there was the interception that should have been made. In the NFL you really can't ask for better opportunities to make a play and stop a drive as a defensive back than those.

[StillLifer Profile]

I want to thank you guys for a really excellent thread. It helps me to understand from more than a spectator's viewpoint why we seem to be styling the "swiss cheese D" recently. Now it actually makes sense why everything goes to hell in a handbasket without Troy. Troy covered up a multitude of sins (aka mediocre corners and the like).

[IronCity__Man Profile]

But doesn't playing bump and run prevent short slants, outs and dump offs? I agree that you need safety help but isn't it more difficult to have success on a 50 yard bomb with safety help than it is to get dinked and dunked all day long? I watched the Doncos against the Gints on turkey day and their corners play man up...seemed to work...it is just beyond frustrating to watch every qb have success against our secondary...I would think that playing man allows the DL to get to the QB quicker...

I think the steelers are the best team in the league at stopping the short pass, not so much the outs but the bubble and WR screens go for negative yardage against the steelers, yet we and the remaining NFL gain 7 or 8 most times it is run

[Hi5Steeler Profile]

want to thank you guys for a really excellent thread. It helps me to understand from more than a spectator's viewpoint why we seem to be styling the "swiss cheese D" recently. Now it actually makes sense why everything goes to hell in a handbasket without Troy. Troy covered up a multitude of sins (aka mediocre corners and the like).

not quite...not really. troy provides HIS talent and other players were chosen for their talent and to support him. weve had the number one D for years. thats not done with mediocre players.

this year is different as we lost our two best players on D and let a third stud player walk.

troy p

aaron smith

bryant mcfadden


and we have had multiple other players step up and play stellar. tyrone carter had the best three games of his life stepping in the first half of season for troy p.

multiple ints.

but now other players are getting hurt on d line and to compensate we are seeing different looks on D. hurting our pass defense.


problems are snowballing.


it really is hard to pinpoint the problem.

in every loss there was a single play that COULD have cemented a win. raiders was the burnett int. drop.

there were many of those in all our losses.

I just think players on our D now have been panicking in the 4th qtr...

[Jeemie Profile]

tyrone carter had the best three games of his life stepping in the first half of season for troy p.

multiple ints.

This is incorrect.

The best game Tyrone Carter played was against DENVER, substituting for RYAN CLARK.

Carter is great as a FS...intercepted two passes in a game this year subbing for Clark.

Intercepted two passes in a game last year subbing for Clark.

When he comes in for Troy at SS, he gets abused.

Remember Johnny Knox?

[Hi5Steeler Profile]

that wasnt my point. my point is he came in and kicked ass.

now injuries are snowballing and its taking more to cover them.