View topic - Fire Mike "Can't win a trap game" Tomlin while you're at it

[mckeesrockstheburg Profile]

SoCal,right-on! I go back to a few of my earlier posts. Let's incentivize the coaches:

Arians for 3rd down conversion rate over 70%. You'll see Ben rollout all the way to the box seats if it meant he had to convert with the play Arians gave him. (I think it was Dierdorf who mentioned that Ben told him he and Brucie were on the same page so much with the play calls, it was eerie.) Not good. Give Bruce big time bonus for 70% or better. That moves the chains and makes ALL the other stats better - TOP, yds/game, etc. Bruce has ZERO interest in moving chains and this is what frustrates us. (Dixon on rollout options - too obvious to anyone who saw him. Except to our OC and our HC who should have more input.)

LeBeau: Incentive for getting off the field on 3rd down. How many 3rd & 22's would get converted then? I'll bet if there is a stat for converting 3rd & 10 or more, we'd lead the league in the give-up dept. Maybe THEN they'd keep Gay in the same area code for 3rd down coverage. Maybe they'd put LB's closer to LOS for a 3rd & a foot instead of 5-7 yds off the ball. MAYBE HAVE THE DB'S WEAR OUT A FREAKING JUGGS MACHINE OR USE A HAMMER TO BREAK UP THE GRANITE IN THEIR HANDS.

[Jeemie Profile]

LeBeau: Incentive for getting off the field on 3rd down.

Just put a buffet table in the Steeler end zone.

Then Fat Casey would run over the opposing team to get to it.

[ballhair Profile]

The year following a superbowl appearance, the only excuses that a team would have for not going back would be players leaving through free agency or a lot of injuries. We've had some injuries but probably no more than most teams. If you can't use these two excuses, what went wrong? Got to be attitude I would think. Its probably more on the players than the coaches. Belichick Had his whole defense wiped out basically but he'll be in the playoffs. The Steelers had it all laid out in front of them and they blew it. How sad

[m1k3 Profile]

What is your point about the above rankings?

The point is that we have a top 10 offense. Two thirds of the league would gladly trade places with us.

These are way below par given the amount of experience and talent that currently fills this roster, especially when you consider the number of absolutely putrid teams in the league this year.

That's debatable. I think your fandom is leading you to this assumption. NO, IND, NE, SD, MIN, ARI, GB. You can make a case that all of these teams have more talent on offense than we do; thus putting us pretty much right where we should be statistically, which by the way is 7th overall in the league.... That's right, we are ranked *7th* in total offense. The Bengals are 18th. The difference is their players have made the plays when they needed to be made.

Also, it's not all about the stats either, it's about the number of times we knowledgeable fans shake our heads at the unbelievable piss-poor play calling. Please explain to me the following...

You're right, it's not *all* about the stats, but the stats are a good measuring stick of your performance.

1. 1st and goal at the 4yd line and going empty backfield? Why would you ever go empty backfield in early downs; let alone 1st and goal?

I agree with you on this one. However, one could make the argument that we're not a power running team anymore and the empty backfield would spread out the D.

2. The utter disappearance of MM catching passes out of the backfield?

I agree with you on this one 100%, although, Mendenhall has had some good catches too.

3. The mystery that is Matt Spaeth?

He's basically a backup tight end.... I'm not sure what your point is on this one.

4. Abandoning the no-huddle the last 4 games with the exception of absolute necessity at the end of games/halfs.

Agree 100%.

5. Ditching the running game when averaging more than 5 yds per carry? (not necessarily last game)

Agree 100%.

6. The lack of draws, screens, misdirections, etc.?

Agree somewhat, but I'm willing to cut him some slack here because they have been running some WR screens that have proven to be effective.

7. Keeping Dixon, the most fleet of foot QB (albeit back-up), in the pocket the entire game even after proving it was incredibly effective for 3 plays (though one was called back). For that matter, Ben is one of the best QB's throwing on the run, so where are the designed rollout plays?

I don't understand the outrage on this one. It is completely fair to assume they wanted to protect Dixon from getting hurt. Our starting QB sustained yet another concussion and was out. Batch is out. Dixon had basically no experience. If Palko was forced to come in, things could have been even worse. As far as Ben goes, don't assume that he has no input on the playcalling. If he were to tell BA that he wants to run some bootleg-rollout stuff, I'm sure he'd be obliged.

I could go on and on...
M1K3 - I usually agree with your perspectives, but you are out to lunch on this one buddy and you would be hard pressed to find anyone else who disagrees with me!

ARIANS MUST GO!!!

I don't completely disagree with a lot of you that are lashing out against BA, however we won the Super Bowl just last year with one of the hardest schedules on record. In my book, that earns this coaching staff at least a year of slack. Especially when you factor in the poor execution we've seen so far this year.

[SoCal Stiller Profile]

He's basically a backup tight end.... I'm not sure what your point is on this one.

POINT IS THAT HE IS NOT A BLOCKING TIGHT END. HIS STRENGTHS LIE IN HIS HEIGHT AND PASS CATCHING ABILITY YET DUMFUK ARIANS NEVER SENDS HIM ON A PASS ROUTE!

I don't understand the outrage on this one. It is completely fair to assume they wanted to protect Dixon from getting hurt. Our starting QB sustained yet another concussion and was out. Batch is out. Dixon had basically no experience. If Palko was forced to come in, things could have been even worse. As far as Ben goes, don't assume that he has no input on the playcalling. If he were to tell BA that he wants to run some bootleg-rollout stuff, I'm sure he'd be obliged.

THIS MAKES NO SENSE. HIS ONLY 2 ROLLOUT PLAYS WERE DURING THE FIRST HALF WHERE LOGICALLY YOU WOULD WANT TO PROTECT HIM EARLY WITH SO MUCH GAME TIME REMAINING. THE PLAYS WORKED FOR HUGE YARDAGE THEN ABANDONED IN THE 2ND HALF??? THEY COULD HAVE AT LEAST DEPLOYED THIS STRATEGY MIDWAY THROUGH THE 4TH QUARTER! ....AND WHY THE HELL DO YOU NEED TO PROTECT YOUR BACK-UP QB ANYWAY ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE URGENCY OF WINNING THAT GAME AND KNOWING BEN WOULD BE BACK THE FOLLOWING WEEK. PLUS, WE HAD 2 OTHER QB'S DRESSED WHO WERE MORE THAN CAPABLE OF HANDING OFF, PLUS THE HINES WARD FACTOR. PLAYING SCARED WITH YOUR GAME PLAN PREDICATED ON "WHAT-IFS" IS A SUREFIRE WAY TO LOSE GAMES! OH WAIT, WE DID LOSE!

[m1k3 Profile]

THIS MAKES NO SENSE. HIS ONLY 2 ROLLOUT PLAYS WERE DURING THE FIRST HALF WHERE LOGICALLY YOU WOULD WANT TO PROTECT HIM EARLY WITH SO MUCH GAME TIME REMAINING. THE PLAYS WORKED FOR HUGE YARDAGE THEN ABANDONED IN THE 2ND HALF??? THEY COULD HAVE AT LEAST DEPLOYED THIS STRATEGY MIDWAY THROUGH THE 4TH QUARTER! ....AND WHY THE HELL DO YOU NEED TO PROTECT YOUR BACK-UP QB ANYWAY ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE URGENCY OF WINNING THAT GAME AND KNOWING BEN WOULD BE BACK THE FOLLOWING WEEK. PLUS, WE HAD 2 OTHER QB'S DRESSED WHO WERE MORE THAN CAPABLE OF HANDING OFF, PLUS THE HINES WARD FACTOR. PLAYING SCARED WITH YOUR GAME PLAN PREDICATED ON "WHAT-IFS" IS A SUREFIRE WAY TO LOSE GAMES! OH WAIT, WE DID LOSE!

Yep. We lost. In overtime. By 3 points. With a QB that threw *1* NFL pass prior to the game. On the road. Against a division opponent that still has one of the better defenses in the league.

[Poltargyst Profile]

Fire Tomlin and his entire staff which sends the message we will not tolerate the poor job he has done this season. Let's face it Camp Cupcake was a complete failure. There is no leader at the helm of the ship

Nice post.
I agree 100%.

How many of us would be looking for a job if we performed as piss-poor as these guys have performed.

All dead former Steelers must be turning over in their graves!

If you accomplished more than anyone else in the country last year at your job (like winning a Super Bowl is for these guys), then I doubt you'd get fired for merely being average this year.

[Poltargyst Profile]

So I'm curious. Is it the opinion of this board that everytime a Steeler head coach has a losing season he should be fired? The Steelers should never ever have a losing season like all the other teams do? Really? Fascinating...

Ok, let's fire Noll after the 69 season. Ok, maybe that's not fair, he had to rebuild the team. We'll let Chuck slide on the 8-8 81 season and fire him after the 85 season, a year removed from the AFCCG. We'll fire Cowher after the 98 season, and fire Tomlin now...if they finish below .500. What if we hire a new coach and he has a losing season his first year? Do guys get a grace period or do we hire a new coach every year?

BTW, the Steelers don't have a losing season yet, they are .500.

[SteelPower Profile]

So I'm curious. Is it the opinion of this board that everytime a Steeler head coach has a losing season he should be fired? The Steelers should never ever have a losing season like all the other teams do? Really? Fascinating...

Ok, let's fire Noll after the 69 season. Ok, maybe that's not fair, he had to rebuild the team. We'll let Chuck slide on the 8-8 81 season and fire him after the 85 season, a year removed from the AFCCG. We'll fire Cowher after the 98 season, and fire Tomlin now...if they finish below .500. What if we hire a new coach and he has a losing season his first year? Do guys get a grace period or do we hire a new coach every year?

BTW, the Steelers don't have a losing season yet, they are .500.

We all feel like firing Tomlin right after the loss because were all so pissed and need to vent. It is easy after the cool off period three days later and post you guys are all nuts for wanting him Fired. Truth is he's got next year to fix it and then drop the axe.

[SoCal Stiller Profile]

THIS MAKES NO SENSE. HIS ONLY 2 ROLLOUT PLAYS WERE DURING THE FIRST HALF WHERE LOGICALLY YOU WOULD WANT TO PROTECT HIM EARLY WITH SO MUCH GAME TIME REMAINING. THE PLAYS WORKED FOR HUGE YARDAGE THEN ABANDONED IN THE 2ND HALF??? THEY COULD HAVE AT LEAST DEPLOYED THIS STRATEGY MIDWAY THROUGH THE 4TH QUARTER! ....AND WHY THE HELL DO YOU NEED TO PROTECT YOUR BACK-UP QB ANYWAY ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE URGENCY OF WINNING THAT GAME AND KNOWING BEN WOULD BE BACK THE FOLLOWING WEEK. PLUS, WE HAD 2 OTHER QB'S DRESSED WHO WERE MORE THAN CAPABLE OF HANDING OFF, PLUS THE HINES WARD FACTOR. PLAYING SCARED WITH YOUR GAME PLAN PREDICATED ON "WHAT-IFS" IS A SUREFIRE WAY TO LOSE GAMES! OH WAIT, WE DID LOSE!

Yep. We lost. In overtime. By 3 points. With a QB that threw *1* NFL pass prior to the game. On the road. Against a division opponent that still has one of the better defenses in the league.

That doesn't change the fact that the game would have been won had Arians properly utilized the tools he had on hand that day. I would be willing to accept your position if we had a 2 or 3 game cushion on the playoff mendoza line. Had we lost by double-digits, then this whole argument would be moot since I felt the offensive play-calling (or lack thereof) was the difference. The players worked their ass off in this one (for the most part) but were let down by ridiculous play calling.

You have not made a valid argument for making Dixon a pocket QB or any other examples I have provided you. You just kept agreeing??? I don't get it?

[m1k3 Profile]

That doesn't change the fact that the game would have been won had Arians properly utilized the tools he had on hand that day. I would be willing to accept your position if we had a 2 or 3 game cushion on the playoff mendoza line. Had we lost by double-digits, then this whole argument would be moot since I felt the offensive play-calling (or lack thereof) was the difference. The players worked their ass off in this one (for the most part) but were let down by ridiculous play calling.

You have not made a valid argument for making Dixon a pocket QB or any other examples I have provided you. You just kept agreeing??? I don't get it?

Because my point is this:

Is the playcalling perfect? No. It's far from it. However, it's been good enough to win every single game we've played so far this year.

Since we're talking about the Ravens game, I'll use it as an example.

Ike Taylor got abused by Derrick Mason all night (just as Gay did by Clayton). There were multiple instances where he had Mason covered like a jimmy hat, yet still managed to let Mason make a catch. The worst of which being that touchdown pass on the left side of the endzone where the ball traveled right over Taylor's head. Without this touchdown, the Steelers probably win in regulation.

On the 4th&5 play, the Steelers missed tackles on 3 or maybe even 4 opportunities before Rice even hit the 40 yard line. Instead he goes for 40+ yards and they get an easy field goal to tie the game.

Without Dixon's INT in overtime, the Steelers would've had a chance to punt the ball and let the defense try to get a stop and win the field position battle.

Sorry, I'm just not so eager to blow up a coaching staff that's less than one calendar year removed from winning a Super Bowl.

[SoCal Stiller Profile]

m1k3 - I see your points. However, the only coach I want removed is Arians! There are plays you alluded to poorly executed from both teams during any given game. My position is that I strongly believe that intelligent play-calling would have been the difference in several games this season and have been the difference in making the playoffs or not. When I watched that Baltimore game and saw those early rollout plays from Dixon, I felt very good about winning that game. My frustration grew exponentially as the game wore on as I watched Dixon operate exclusively from the pocket. Very disappointing and a wasted opportunity to expose B'more's slower & aging front seven.
It was sickening to hear the talking heads on TV talk about how the Ratbirds contained Dixon in the pocket. - BULLSHIT. The Steelers contained him in the pocket - not the Ratbird's 'D'.

People have made the point on these boards that we won the Superbowl with Arians last year. I would argue that we won with a DOMINANT defense and a QB who can improvise like no other aided by the no-huddle where Arian's ignorance is removed from the equation.

IMHO this offense is currently built to function as Whis ran it during our '05 playoff run. Now that my friend was ingenious play-calling (and formations) in which we buried them early and made the opposing offense one-dimensional for the remainder of the game. Then we would run the ball late in the game after their tired asses were wore out from chasing our receivers all game. Now that Mendy has developed into an above average RB, this concept should be able to work again. Mendy has been one of the few bright spots the last 4 weeks!

[mckeesrockstheburg Profile]

IMHO this offense is currently built to function as Whis ran it during our '05 playoff run. Now that my friend was ingenious play-calling (and formations) in which we buried them early and made the opposing offense one-dimensional for the remainder of the game. Then we would run the ball late in the game after their tired asses were wore out from chasing our receivers all game. Now that Mendy has developed into an above average RB, this concept should be able to work again. Mendy has been one of the few bright spots the last 4 weeks!

ROCK-ON !!! My points all %^&$# season. Absolutely NO REASON we don't hang 30+ on most teams out there. Wallace, MeMO, Miller, Ward all as chain movers with Holmes drawing the doubles, wallace getting deep (and OPEN). Puh-Lease!

[m1k3 Profile]

IMHO this offense is currently built to function as Whis ran it during our '05 playoff run. Now that my friend was ingenious play-calling (and formations) in which we buried them early and made the opposing offense one-dimensional for the remainder of the game. Then we would run the ball late in the game after their tired asses were wore out from chasing our receivers all game. Now that Mendy has developed into an above average RB, this concept should be able to work again. Mendy has been one of the few bright spots the last 4 weeks!

ROCK-ON !!! My points all %^&$# season. Absolutely NO REASON we don't hang 30+ on most teams out there. Wallace, MeMO, Miller, Ward all as chain movers with Holmes drawing the doubles, wallace getting deep (and OPEN). Puh-Lease!

I still love you guys because you're Steelers fans, but you're freaking nuts.

A lot of those players are gone. In fact, the only offensive players on the '05 team that were contributors then and still are now are Ben, Heath, and Hines.

We weren't running the ball late in games. We were running the ball the entire game. Back then, Ben was only throwing the ball 15-20 times per game. Our offensive live (mainly because of Faneca) and the come-uppance of FWP allowed us to get away with it, because we bludgeoned teams to death. You can use Super Bowl XL as the crown jewel of an example. 22 pass attempts for 166 yards (43 of which came from Randle El) / 33 rush attempts for 181 yards.

I agree that it would be nice to see some of that ingenuity and creativity again (especially the gadget plays). But, we're just not that team anymore. That doesn't mean we shouldn't still be hanging the points on teams like mckees said. If Sweed would stop dropping balls in the endzone and Ben would stop throwing picks in the endzone, maybe we would. An occasional turnover from the defense would be nice too.

Hopefully it starts now.

[SoCal Stiller Profile]

I agree that we ran the ball much more that season & the superbowl, but I was referring specifically to the playoff games leading up to the superbowl! We passed the hell out of it early in those games and took a commanding lead when everyone on the planet was expecting us to come out pounding the ball. Had we continued that trend vs Seattle in the big game, then the score would not have been as close as it was and we would have eradicated any referee controversy that Seattle is still crying about.

Also, the personnel we have on offense this year is much more suited to my game plan than it was that season. There is no comparison between that receiving group to this one. However, I will admit that the '05 O-line was better though.

[Hi5Steeler Profile]

THIS article proves the coaches are doing the right thing and that execution in a small percentage of plays has let us fall to six and six. I REPEAT.... it isnt coaching.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4052

[SoCal Stiller Profile]

THIS article proves the coaches are doing the right thing and that execution in a small percentage of plays has let us fall to six and six. I REPEAT.... it isnt coaching.


viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4052

We agree to disagree on this one bud. Bottom line for me is that I have never liked Arian's playcalling, Superbowl or not. I feel we won last year with our 'D' and BB's escapability and improvisation.

See you next thread...

[deltadweller Profile]

we should have won by 28 points? vegas started at 14. thats double what vegas had. and vegas is trained to pick that down to the millimeter. So im calling b.s. on SHOULD HAVE won by 28.

With all due respect Vegas only is expert at setting a betting line to attract equal betting so they don't have risk and can collect the juice. I don't disagree with your calling 28 BS however.

[deltadweller Profile]

I think one or two games is failure to execute by the players. 5 lost leads in the fourth is a pattern that has to make the coaching staff implicit.

[Hi5Steeler Profile]

We agree to disagree on this one bud. Bottom line for me is that I have never liked Arian's playcalling, Superbowl or not. I feel we won last year with our 'D' and BB's escapability and improvisation.

See you next thread

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dont you ever surrender???????????????