View topic - New Article: Parkers Delays vs. Mendys Plunges -- A Thesis

[StillMill Profile]

http://www.stillers.com/articles/2444.aspx has been posted by Still Mill at Stillers.com.

[Crucible-steel-kid Profile]

Parker is toast. I couldn't believe the running game, even though it was against S.D. they were more than capable of stuffing the run by stacking 8 or 9 in the box. I hope that BA/Tomlin keeps Mendy in there instead of Parker. Parker's better days are behind him.

[lloydgreene Profile]

Excellent analysis. I love the film study.

I think it was coaching. I think if healthy, Parker would have been executing the same quick-hit type of plunges. Maybe not to the success that Mendy had, but it looks to me like an adjustment in the overall execution of the plays. It just kind of angers me that Arians took 4 weeks to figure it out. Quick, punch them in the mouth running plays tend to be the most effective, not the cutesy- try-to-catch-them-offguard draws or delays. I think all of us noticed in the preseason that our RB's were being hit in the backfield WAY too often. Arians must have gotten on the phone with Mike Shannahan this week.

The one thing about the NFL... if you noticed it, then so did all of our oppenents. While that doesn't scare me this week or even next, we do have a few VERY solid defenses coming up that are more than capable of countering our newly-discovered design.

[Jeemie Profile]

Excellent analysis. I love the film study.

I think it was coaching. I think if healthy, Parker would have been executing the same quick-hit type of plunges.

I don't believe it's coaching at all.

It's pretty well-known that one of Parker's weaknesses is his vision. He needs the little bit of extra time to try and spot the hole...the only time he would execute quick plunges is if the hole opened up in the exact place he expected it to open up based on play design. I'm sure the hole opens up in the expected place with regularity in practice, but not in a real game.

Parker used to make up for this delay with his quickness after spotting the hole. I think with his injuries, he's lost a step, and so now his poor vision is becoming a real detriment.

We always are so quick to blame the coaches. Here, I'm 99% certain it's the player.

[IronCity__Man Profile]

However, Willie would have ran up 150 on that San Diego defense as well.

[Jeemie Profile]

However, Willie would have ran up 150 on that San Diego defense as well.

Well yeah...because our O-linemen pretty much could have held their blocks forever against that D.

[napnewman Profile]

I can't remember if it was this past preseason, but I recall some of the O-linemen flat out stating the Mendy hits the hole faster than Parker. I don't know if it's a vision thing or not.

I don't have the film to study (maybe Mill can verify this) - during his limited play in the Titans game, didn't Mendy get hit behind the line of scrimmage and manage to gain some positive yardage? (I thought that happened 2 times in that game -Mendy showing alot of leg power)

[Pommah Profile]

It seems to me Parker has not been the same since he broke his leg. Let us remember he was the NFL's leading rusher for the season until that injury. Sometimes players aren't the same after a big injury.

I don't recall Mendy doing any better than Parker did when they played in the same game. It will be interesting to see if that's any different when we get Parker back.

[Jeemie Profile]

I can't remember if it was this past preseason, but I recall some of the O-linemen flat out stating the Mendy hits the hole faster than Parker. I don't know if it's a vision thing or not.

I don't have the film to study (maybe Mill can verify this) - during his limited play in the Titans game, didn't Mendy get hit behind the line of scrimmage and manage to gain some positive yardage? (I thought that happened 2 times in that game -Mendy showing alot of leg power)

I don't know about Mendy's play, but I counted at least 4 times Parker missed a wide-open hole, and instead ran up the backs of his blockers.

Now, in at least three of those cases, there was a LBer or DB ready to plug the hole, but going through it still would have netted a good 3 yards.

[MDSteelersFan Profile]

Interesting observation:

ob⋅ser⋅va⋅tion [ob-zur-vey-shuhn]
–noun 1. an act or instance of noticing or perceiving.

Not yet a thesis:

the⋅sis [thee-sis] –noun, 1. a proposition stated or put forward for consideration, esp. one to be discussed and proved or to be maintained against objections.

Just sayin'. It's not a thesis until you put forward a reason for the difference. Assuming you are not flat out lying, (I have not reviewed the tapes but have no reason to doubt that your observations are accurate,) there is nothing to debate until you attempt to give a reason for the differences.

I suppose you have left it to this thread to develop a thesis. That's fine too. Seems to me that it must be more than the back if Ben takes two steps and two seconds longer to hand the ball to FWP. Timing is a critical part of every play so if Ben's timing is that different it must be by design.

My guess is that the difference stems from the fact that the offense was designed for two backs to get significant touches in each game. So far that hasn't happened. Whether by design, injury or failure to sweat the details in practice, we have basically seen EITHER Mendy OR FWP...not both.

If Mendy is supposed to be the "change of pace" back, it only makes sense to design that different pace into the plays. This design would be particularly effective if they could switch up late in the game, with Mendy pulling a few delays and FWP making some quick hits - just to keep the defense honest (and confused).

[Pump-N-Iron Profile]

It just kind of angers me that Arians took 4 weeks to figure it out.

Try a whole season + 4 weeks. Arians has been enamored with the "Slow-as-Whalesh*t" counter play since he got here. The problem I have is why we would HAND the ball to Willie at all. We should be pitching it to him while he is already running. Willie's strength has always been speed to the edge, not between the tackles. They have been trying to pound his square peg into that round whole TOO LONG. Now, to convince the coaching staff...

[napnewman Profile]

I don't recall Mendy doing any better than Parker did when they played in the same game. It will be interesting to see if that's any different when we get Parker back.

Neither back ran well that game. I just thought when Parker was hit behind the line, he stayed there - Mendy pushed forward for a positive yard.

[mckeesrocksthepitt Profile]

FWP needs to be out in open space to use his speed. He is NOT a tackle breaker - how many 1-hand stops do we see from him. That said, MeMo is more versatile since he does his work in open space and can also perform behind the line.

Love FWP but I still can'thelp but think about why he didn't play at UNC and I believe it is a vision thing, a lack of improvization - he just goes where he's supposed to go, whether hole is there or not. Jerome always mentioned he tutored him on patience finding "the right hole", not just the hole the play called for. That's why he runs up the back of his lineman.

Love Mill's analysis. Give the rock to Mendy

[lloydgreene Profile]

A couple of thoughts.

First of all, lol @ thesis. I guess we have some work to do...

Second, I think it is worth noting that many of us who are now squarely in Mendy's corner were calling for us to cut him two weeks ago. Let's rejoice in a great performance but be cautious not to annoint him starter just yet. He was in Coach Tomlin's dog house a week ago. And he has a little more to prove in the way of consistency. As always, though, it starts with the line.

[stillgrill Profile]

I have been cursing those draw-like, slowasshit developing plays to FWP for YEARS. I think it is a matter of footwork & indecisiveness. Face it, FWP has relied on 2 yds, -1yd, 3 yds, BAM 35 yds for so long. I want the days back when it was always 2nd & 6-7 w/ the Bus. I wish I had a friggin dollar for every time it's been 2nd & 11 or 12 in the last 3 yrs.

[kurtostill Profile]

I have been cursing those draw-like, slowasshit developing plays to FWP for YEARS. I think it is a matter of footwork & indecisiveness. Face it, FWP has relied on 2 yds, -1yd, 3 yds, BAM 35 yds for so long. I want the days back when it was always 2nd & 6-7 w/ the Bus. I wish I had a friggin dollar for every time it's been 2nd & 11 or 12 in the last 3 yrs.

I think many of us have been cursing Arians because of this for a couple seasons now. I have no idea why Arians hasn't regularly utilized FWP like he did Mendy against SD.
There is one factor that makes me think the problem was coaching; Ben running back several more steps to hand off to FWP compared to when he was handing it off to Mendy this week. This is the NFL and these plays don’t develop by chance or some fluke. They are highly orchestrated and precisely synchronized. Therefore, I put the blame squarely on Arians shoulders. Maybe Arians learned a few lessons from the SD game. That of course remains to be seen.
And I agree that FWP has indeed been tentative and timid as of late. I believe a couple factors are contributing to this. First, he's been continually injured because he has been used like a 250 Bettis type back for years now. Averaging 25+ runs a game for a season is not sustainable for any runner, especially one of FWP’s size. This has been proven throughout the NFL for years now, thus the increased prevalence of a 2 or more RB approach ala Tennessee, New England and so on. Second, the play-calling is contributing to FWP’s trepidation. In other words, he is not getting the ball in a way that utilizes his strengths – mainly his flat out speed. He needs to get the ball in space (on pitches, sweeps around end, etc) where he can outrace defenders instead of being sent up the gut into the 8 to 9 defender coffin. The guy weighs all of 210 pounds and I never understood that call. Not once.
I think the “Willie Parker’s career is over” rant is a bit premature. I think he’ll bounce back if (and this is a big if) Arians learns to use him in a way that compliments his talents. I think a lot of people here on Stillers.com have been saying this about FWP and Arians for a couple seasons now.
Mendy on the other hand is a bigger (15-20 pounds over FWP) and more powerful runner. I believe he has the potential to be far more effective in the pound it out, up the gut role.
These two RBs could be an outstanding AND durable combination if utilized as a tandem. I only hope that Arians makes it happen.

[lloydgreene Profile]

I have been cursing those draw-like, slowasshit developing plays to FWP for YEARS. I think it is a matter of footwork & indecisiveness. Face it, FWP has relied on 2 yds, -1yd, 3 yds, BAM 35 yds for so long. I want the days back when it was always 2nd & 6-7 w/ the Bus. I wish I had a friggin dollar for every time it's been 2nd & 11 or 12 in the last 3 yrs.

I think many of us have been cursing Arians because of this for a couple seasons now. I have no idea why Arians hasn't regularly utilized FWP like he did Mendy against SD.
There is one factor that makes me think the problem was coaching; Ben running back several more steps to hand off to FWP compared to when he was handing it off to Mendy this week. This is the NFL and these plays don’t develop by chance or some fluke. They are highly orchestrated and precisely synchronized. Therefore, I put the blame squarely on Arians shoulders. Maybe Arians learned a few lessons from the SD game. That of course remains to be seen.
And I agree that FWP has indeed been tentative and timid as of late. I believe a couple factors are contributing to this. First, he's been continually injured because he has been used like a 250 Bettis type back for years now. Averaging 25+ runs a game for a season is not sustainable for any runner, especially one of FWP’s size. This has been proven throughout the NFL for years now, thus the increased prevalence of a 2 or more RB approach ala Tennessee, New England and so on. Second, the play-calling is contributing to FWP’s trepidation. In other words, he is not getting the ball in a way that utilizes his strengths – mainly his flat out speed. He needs to get the ball in space (on pitches, sweeps around end, etc) where he can outrace defenders instead of being sent up the gut into the 8 to 9 defender coffin. The guy weighs all of 210 pounds and I never understood that call. Not once.
I think the “Willie Parker’s career is over” rant is a bit premature. I think he’ll bounce back if (and this is a big if) Arians learns to use him in a way that compliments his talents. I think a lot of people here on Stillers.com have been saying this about FWP and Arians for a couple seasons now.
Mendy on the other hand is a bigger (15-20 pounds over FWP) and more powerful runner. I believe he has the potential to be far more effective in the pound it out, up the gut role.
These two RBs could be an outstanding AND durable combination if utilized as a tandem. I only hope that Arians makes it happen.

I agree that we will need both backs to give SOLID contributions this year for us to be successful. I meant to state that in my previous post. I also agree that it was a coaching tactical change to replace the slower developing run plays and I think it shows Arians is too slow to adapt. We should have recognized in preseason that we were getting hit in the backfield too often. I think if Willie had been in there, he would have been running up to a designed hole rather than waiting for his blocks to develope. This as you stated is supported by Big Ben's footwork -which was not as deep in the backfield for the handoffs.

I was just extatic that we showed glimpses of dominance and a run game. Kind of justifies my faith a bit. We just need it through 4 qtrs.

[ronkat Profile]

This is an excellent observation. Everyone is talking O-line, but the difference in the timing last week was the more important news.
Is it possible that Arians figured this out on his own or is it a matter of player style?
Given Airhead's history, I give the nod to Mendy. Hopefully FWP is embarrassed enough to change his game.

[Ed Burns Profile]

Nice observations on the differences between the two. Mendy ran with power and decisiveness. The problem is, Arians has come out and said Parker is the starter as soon as he's healthy enough. I like Parker, but in this case, Mendy is the hot hand based on one performance. Mendy can only help his position by shredding the lowly Lions D. BA needs to close his mouth on who's gonna start. It's not his decision. Tomlin should be making that decision. He needs to tell his lame-ass OC to shut up and worry about calling a competent offensive game. I like Mendenhall, and I would like to see him remain the starter. The run game almost looked like it did a few years back, but better.