View topic - Where is the Dick LeBeau Fan club today ??

[StillMill Profile]

Exactly. Mill wont conceed defeat because his main attribute for winning arguments is unyeilding ignorance.

But, if you arent going to credit Lebeau for putting Harrison in position to make the pick, even though an abnormal amount of INTs at the goalline turn into TDs, then you cant blame him for Ike Taylor's diving missed tackle on Fitz. Ike is much faster than him, and had Ike stayed on his feet and just caught up and tackled him, it would have only been a 20 yard gain. Yet, Ike's boneheaded move is Lebeau's fault, and Harrison's miraculous return is not credited to Lebeau. This is after you charge the defense for giving up those 2 points when they weren't on the field.

Let me know when you're ready to start rooting for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Uh, sorry Re-Todd-did .....there is no "defeat" to condede. Provalone Dick got SHREDDED in the 4Q, when games are WON OR LOST.

As for Harrison's INT, even LeBEAU full stated after the game that he himself did NOTHING SPECIAL on that play.....rather, it was all Harrison. So, stop making it sound like Dick devised some clever mastermind scheme to have Harrison pick off the pass and then -- with Dick's supreme planning and coaching -- a wall of blockers was formed to escort Harrison. Harrison drops into coverage NUMEROUS times during EVERY SINGLE GAME, with OTEHRS blitzing in his place. And that entire INT return was AD LIBBED, meaning Dick had nothing -- ZERO -- to do with it. NOTHING.

The late Fitz TD was NOT scored due to Ike's missed tackle. It was scored because Gilligan LeBeau had BOTH his safeties on an ISLAND -- covering NO ONE, defending NO ONE, and totally OUT of position to do ANYTHING. THAT was Dick's fault.

Let me know when you're ready to start dropping the retarded act.

[Teegre Profile]

As for Harrison's INT, even LeBEAU full stated after the game that he himself did NOTHING SPECIAL on that play.....rather, it was all Harrison. So, stop making it sound like Dick devised some clever mastermind scheme to have Harrison pick off the pass and then -- with Dick's supreme planning and coaching -- a wall of blockers was formed to escort Harrison. Harrison drops into coverage NUMEROUS times during EVERY SINGLE GAME, with OTEHRS blitzing in his place.

I thought that we had already covered this topic. Oh well...here we go...
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80e97cd9

While LeBeau did not plan for the wall of blockers (nor the superior return by Harrison), he did indeed call the coverage.

[Teegre Profile]

[quote="StillMill"]The late Fitz TD was NOT scored due to Ike's missed tackle. It was scored because Gilligan LeBeau had BOTH his safeties on an ISLAND -- covering NO ONE, defending NO ONE, and totally OUT of position to do ANYTHING. THAT was Dick's fault. [quote]

Again, I thought that this was already discussed. Oh well (once again)...

As far as the fourth quarter goes, here is what I saw:
1) The safeties were playing way, way back.
2) The safeties seemed to cut drastically towards the sidelines.

Why?
It appears that Pittsburgh's offense was trying to protect the sidelines, figuring that the Cardinals were going to try to keep as much time on the clock as possible, via short sideline out patterns. In turn, the Steelers appeared to be allowing underneath routes, and then keeping the WRs in bounds.

Let us use the 65 yard TD as an example.

When the WRs (Boldin & Breaston) broke outside, the safeties overpursued them...to keep those WRs from catching and running out of bounds (i.e. Pittsburgh was trying to keep the clock moving). The safeties left the middle of the field open, because they figured that if Arizona did throw to the middle, then that player would be tackled in bounds, and thus using up the clock.

That philosophy might have worked for most teams, and possibly even against the Cardinals.
But, but, but...
The problem was that Fitzgerlald was the player going across the middle (not Breaston or Boldin...who usually run acorss the middle).
In turn, this philospphy should have been abandoned/altered the very second that Fitz started running his route across the middle.

Simply, when Fitz ran his route across the middle, Polamalu should have neglected his "sideline" responsibilites, and doubled up on Fitz.

Alas, 65 yards too late, the Steelers learned their lesson.

Furthermore, Arizona had run this exact same play earlier in the game, against the same defense, and Polamalu doubled Fitz...albeit, since Fitz just happened to be one of the "sideline" WRs, Polamlu did not have to make a decision about who to cover. He double-covered Fitz, because Fitz went "sideline."

Again, when this play was run in the 4th quarter, Fitz ran his route inside. Ergo, the safety whose side Fitz was on (i.e. Polamalu) should have ignored his sideline responsibility...and doubled up Fitz.

Was it LeBeau's fault for not making it clear to Polamalu to double up on Fitz?
Did LeBeau's tell Polamalu to cover the sideline WR no matter what?
Or, was it Polamalu's misunderstanding of the play?

In other words, I am not sure who is to blame for that play, because it is ambiguous as to who was responsible for what. And, simply, this play is a microcosm for the entire fourth quarter.

In summation, it seems to be a mixture of:
-LeBeau's not making the correct calls
&
-the players not making the correct reads.

[StillMill Profile]

I thought that we had already covered this topic. Oh well...here we go...
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80e97cd9

While LeBeau did not plan for the wall of blockers (nor the superior return by Harrison), he did indeed call the coverage.

I thought that we had already covered this topic. Oh well...here we go...

even LeBEAU full stated after the game in the PITTSBURGH NEWSPAPER that he himself did NOTHING SPECIAL on that play.....rather, it was all Harrison. So, stop making it sound like Dick devised some clever mastermind scheme to have Harrison pick off the pass and then -- with Dick's supreme planning and coaching -- a wall of blockers was formed to escort Harrison. Harrison has dropped into coverage NUMEROUS times during EVERY SINGLE GAME this season, with OTHERS blitzing in his place. Having Harrison drop into coverage while 6 other guys rushed the QB was hardly a diabolical scheme.

[StillMill Profile]

The late Fitz TD was NOT scored due to Ike's missed tackle. It was scored because Gilligan LeBeau had BOTH his safeties on an ISLAND -- covering NO ONE, defending NO ONE, and totally OUT of position to do ANYTHING. THAT was Dick's fault.

Again, I thought that this was already discussed. Oh well (once again)...

As far as the fourth quarter goes, here is what I saw:
1) The safeties were playing way, way back.
2) The safeties seemed to cut drastically towards the sidelines.

Why?
It appears that Pittsburgh's offense was trying to protect the sidelines, figuring that the Cardinals were going to try to keep as much time on the clock as possible, via short sideline out patterns. In turn, the Steelers appeared to be allowing underneath routes, and then keeping the WRs in bounds.

Let us use the 65 yard TD as an example.

When the WRs (Boldin & Breaston) broke outside, the safeties overpursued them...to keep those WRs from catching and running out of bounds (i.e. Pittsburgh was trying to keep the clock moving). The safeties left the middle of the field open, because they figured that if Arizona did throw to the middle, then that player would be tackled in bounds, and thus using up the clock.

That philosophy might have worked for most teams, and possibly even against the Cardinals.
But, but, but...
The problem was that Fitzgerlald was the player going across the middle (not Breaston or Boldin...who usually run acorss the middle).
In turn, this philospphy should have been abandoned/altered the very second that Fitz started running his route across the middle.

Simply, when Fitz ran his route across the middle, Polamalu should have neglected his "sideline" responsibilites, and doubled up on Fitz.

Alas, 65 yards too late, the Steelers learned their lesson.

Furthermore, Arizona had run this exact same play earlier in the game, against the same defense, and Polamalu doubled Fitz...albeit, since Fitz just happened to be one of the "sideline" WRs, Polamlu did not have to make a decision about who to cover. He double-covered Fitz, because Fitz went "sideline."

Again, when this play was run in the 4th quarter, Fitz ran his route inside. Ergo, the safety whose side Fitz was on (i.e. Polamalu) should have ignored his sideline responsibility...and doubled up Fitz.

Was it LeBeau's fault for not making it clear to Polamalu to double up on Fitz?
Did LeBeau's tell Polamalu to cover the sideline WR no matter what?
Or, was it Polamalu's misunderstanding of the play?

In other words, I am not sure who is to blame for that play, because it is ambiguous as to who was responsible for what. And, simply, this play is a microcosm for the entire fourth quarter.

In summation, it seems to be a mixture of:
-LeBeau's not making the correct calls
&
-the players not making the correct reads.

Nice try, but not quite. Not quite, by a long stretch.

As I had very clearly written in my pregame analysis (http://stillers.com/articles/2393.aspx),

"The Cards have these staple passing plays:

- First and foremost, the deep 15-yard in. The Giants defended this better than anyone when they beat AZ in Nov. They read and then sat on this route all day long."

This fact was WELL KNOWN that the Cards LOVED to run the deep in. WELL KNOWN. Fuck almighty, I'd only seen 6 or 7 Cards games this season, and I don't have the God-like access to "game film" that some of you fuking idots like to profess about when talking about how omnipotent the coaches are......and even I fuking knew all about the AZ love affair with the DEEP IN PATTERN.

So, ergo, Dick having his safeties play on an ISLAND, 22 yards off the LOS and then rabidly and very dutifully - as obedient as a Nazi SS guard -- defending the sidelines, was on Gilligan LeBeau, not the safeties.

If 1 safety screws up, you COULD blame it on a mental boner by that player. When BOTH safeties robotically perform the EXACT SAME task in the EXACT SAME ammner, it's SCHEME. And 1 man directed that scheme, and his name is DickLick LeBeau.

So, you can drop the hypothesizing and excuse making. One man called for the scheme that fucked the dog, and that man was The Dullard, Dick LeBeau. 'nuf said.

[Teegre Profile]

Nice try, but not quite. Not quite, by a long stretch.

As I had very clearly written in my pregame analysis (http://stillers.com/articles/2393.aspx),

"The Cards have these staple passing plays:

- First and foremost, the deep 15-yard in. The Giants defended this better than anyone when they beat AZ in Nov. They read and then sat on this route all day long."

This fact was WELL KNOWN that the Cards LOVED to run the deep in. WELL KNOWN. Fuck almighty, I'd only seen 6 or 7 Cards games this season, and I don't have the God-like access to "game film" that some of you fuking idots like to profess about when talking about how omnipotent the coaches are......and even I fuking knew all about the AZ love affair with the DEEP IN PATTERN.
So, ergo, Dick having his safeties play on an ISLAND, 22 yards off the LOS and then rabidly and very dutifully - as obedient as a Nazi SS guard -- defending the sidelines, was on Gilligan LeBeau, not the safeties.

If 1 safety screws up, you COULD blame it on a mental boner by that player. When BOTH safeties robotically perform the EXACT SAME task in the EXACT SAME ammner, it's SCHEME. And 1 man directed that scheme, and his name is DickLick LeBeau.

So, you can drop the hypothesizing and excuse making. One man called for the scheme that fucked the dog, and that man was The Dullard, Dick LeBeau. 'nuf said.

1. We agreed on how to defend the Cardinals (I posted a reply to your article, somewhere, stating this). That said, I was also very optimistic that LeBeau would use more nickel & dime (again, in the same aformentioned response to your article).
And, simply, LeBeau did use more nickel & dime...(although, apparently, not enough).

2. Re: the safeties playing 22 yards back.
On this, we agree 100%.

3. Re: the 65 yarder.
I still contend that when this same play was run earlier, Polamalu followed Fitzgerald (just as Polamamlu had done on Boldin's 40 yarder: followed Fitz & ignored the other WRs). Then, for whatever reason, in the fourth quarter, Polamalu decided that he would ignore Fitz.

You say it was LeBeau that changed the game plan.
Others can blame Polamalu.
I feel that it is too ambiguous (to actually tell who is to blame).

Your point that both of safeties jumped on the route is indeed a valid point.
Then again, I saw Clark do this all game long...whereas, Polmalu changed what he did (i.e. went from doubling Fitz to jumping the out routes).

Summation:
I think people's concern (with your bashing of LeBeau) is not that he made mistakes in the fourth quarter (because, it is well documented that he did).
It seems as though you do not want to give LeBeau any credit for anything.

Case in point: LeBeau designed a beautiful play on Harrison's INT.
Yet, you adamantly say LeBeau had nothing to do with it.
C'mon Mill.
I empathize: I was angry in the fourth quarter, as well. But, lamb-basting every single thing LeBeau did does not make any sense.

Again, the man made some serious gaffs (e.g. playing the safeties too far back)...
...and you should indeed point out those mistakes.
But, at least give the man credit for the things he did do correctly (i.e. the INT).
And, furthermore, at least split the difference in the blame between the players & LeBeau on the plays that are ambiguous.

Alright...LOST is coming on...gotta go.

[steelcitymetal Profile]

do you think we would be better off without lebeau?

[StillMill Profile]

do you think we would be better off without lebeau?

Uh, the exact same question used to constantly be posed, regarding Billy Cowher. "do you think we would be better off without Cowher?"

Turned out the answer to that question was YES.

[steelcitymetal Profile]

do you think we would be better off without lebeau?

Uh, the exact same question used to constatly be posed, regarding Billy Cowher. "do you think we would be better off without Cowher?"

Turned out the answer to that question was YES.

so arians and lebeau should both go

[StillMill Profile]

do you think we would be better off without lebeau?

Uh, the exact same question used to constatly be posed, regarding Billy Cowher. "do you think we would be better off without Cowher?"

Turned out the answer to that question was YES.

so arians and lebeau should both go

I didn't necessarily SAY that....but if that's yer recommendation, it's certainly worth a thought.

[smheart78 Profile]

They both get a full blessing to stay for another year, know why? B/C they won the super bowl. No self-respecting organization gets rid of their coach or coordinators after winning a Superbowl (They may get better offers to move up, but not let go).

[punum123 Profile]

NET - we won the fukin' game.

I would shoot Arians LOOONNNGGGG before I handed LeBeau a pink slip. I'm not arguing the 4th quarter strategy it sucked on both sides of the ball IMO. Truth be told, I was muther-fukin' both LeBeau and Arians in the 2nd half.

Call it luck...call it whatever you want...we WON.

Maybe you don't agree...but I think a guy like LeBeau, who's earned so much respect from his players, can get the most out of average and above-average talent. I think there's real value in that...

Take it easy Mill and enjoy the shit out of this win. You never know how long it may take to get back (ask Dan Moreno).

[Nel Profile]

If it wasn't for Ben Roethlisberger pulling W's out of his ass this past season, people would not be lauding these coordinators.

Let's get something clear: let Ben play his game.

[GCCSteel Profile]

Prepare for some more "incoherent babble".

Arians, out the door. Reason: Consistent inability to devise a workable gameplan and make adequate changes.

Lebeau, keep him. Reason: Over time has shown the ability to get the most from his players and devise creative tactics to ruffle offenses feathers. Look at his body of work as a D coordinator.

The concensus is that the defense played poorly in the second half of the superbowl. The Arizona passing attack mixed with Kurt Warner's quick reads was and has been our bane for a few years (New England's spread). Dick Lebeau did not "fold like a lawn chair," however. I am fairly certain we won the game. Big Ben had much to do with it, no doubt. The Cardinals offense struggled to assert its dominance until the very end of the game, which proved to be too late. They were a HOT team coming in to the game. Dick Lebeau and the entire defense did enough to stiffle them and give us a chance to win. That is all you can ask sometimes.

If you graded any coordinators or coaches as stringently as you grade our coaches, you would find not one passing mark. You can't ream a coach for one playcall or even a poor series here or there. Guess what, Joe Montana threw a few interceptions. Lawrence Taylor got manhandled from time to time. Look at the body of work. He has done more with less consistently for a while and his players play their hearts out for him. You will not see the same for very many others in this league.

[Field General Ben Profile]

Just to put a different spin on the discussion, how many teams have considered either Dick LeBeau or Bruce Arians for a head-coaching job this season? Just wondering.

[JimPgh1 Profile]

He hasn't stated it verbatim, but the implication is there - Mill thinks that HE could do a better job as DC than LeBeau.

LeBeau is a "retard"; he's fooled everyone(except Mill) all these years. If Mill were DC, the other team's offense would NEVER score.

[SteelPower Profile]

I get tired of everyone always saying well the Cardinals were the hot team coming into the Super Bowl. Hell, we were the hot team. The Stiller just came off the toughest schedule in 25 years and finished 12 and 4. The shitbag Cardinals limp in at 9 and 7 in terrible division, get handed wins in the playoffs with gift wrapped turnovers. The Stillers should have won this game in a blow out and we all know that did not happen because of both cordinators. BA's got no talent and if anyone needed proof, six plays at the five yard line and still could not devise a play to get us seven. Dick let this become a game trying to play it safe, dropping his safeties way off the ball and cover the sidelines to tackel them in bounds to keep the clock runnning. This was a page out Bill Cowpricks book of how to play playoff football. I am thrilled, on cloud nine that we won the game but make no mistake it was won by Big Ben and not this coaching staff. The no huddle took the game away from BA and into Ben's hands. There is your true MVP. Ariens needs fired, Dick needs to be on a shorter leash from Tomlin. The players play their hearts out for Dick and that is more than half the battle but he is not a head coach for a reason. MT needs to remember that, and the buck stops with him.

[StillMill Profile]

They both get a full blessing to stay for another year, know why? B/C they won the super bowl. No self-respecting organization gets rid of their coach or coordinators after winning a Superbowl (They may get better offers to move up, but not let go).

After Sup Bowl 30 in Jan 1996, Ron Erhardt, the Stillers OC, essentially departed without getting a promotion....

[StillMill Profile]

Prepare for some more "incoherent babble".

Arians, out the door. Reason: Consistent inability to devise a workable gameplan and make adequate changes.

Lebeau, keep him. Reason: Over time has shown the ability to get the most from his players and devise creative tactics to ruffle offenses feathers. Look at his body of work as a D coordinator.

The concensus is that the defense played poorly in the second half of the superbowl. The Arizona passing attack mixed with Kurt Warner's quick reads was and has been our bane for a few years (New England's spread). Dick Lebeau did not "fold like a lawn chair," however. I am fairly certain we won the game. Big Ben had much to do with it, no doubt. The Cardinals offense struggled to assert its dominance until the very end of the game, which proved to be too late. They were a HOT team coming in to the game. Dick Lebeau and the entire defense did enough to stiffle them and give us a chance to win. That is all you can ask sometimes.

If you graded any coordinators or coaches as stringently as you grade our coaches, you would find not one passing mark. You can't ream a coach for one playcall or even a poor series here or there. Guess what, Joe Montana threw a few interceptions. Lawrence Taylor got manhandled from time to time. Look at the body of work. He has done more with less consistently for a while and his players play their hearts out for him. You will not see the same for very many others in this league.

Actually, this was NOT incoherent babble. Solid stuff.

Just to clarify, Dick also got torched in the 1st half, when he got caught in base, and then poured gasoline on the fire by rushing only 3 men. 40 yards later, Boldin was down at the 1, and our 10-0 lead went mostly up in smoke.

"Dick Lebeau and the entire defense did enough to stiffle them and give us a chance to win." Actually, they didn't. They choked away the lead and gave up the GO-AHEAD touchdown with less than 3 min. left in the game. By doing that, they really didn't "give us a chance to win the game"; in fact, at that point they all but destroyed our chances of winning.

[StillMill Profile]

I get tired of everyone always saying well the Cardinals were the hot team coming into the Super Bowl. Hell, we were the hot team. The Stiller just came off the toughest schedule in 25 years and finished 12 and 4. The shitbag Cardinals limp in at 9 and 7 in terrible division, get handed wins in the playoffs with gift wrapped turnovers. The Stillers should have won this game in a blow out and we all know that did not happen because of both cordinators. BA's got no talent and if anyone needed proof, six plays at the five yard line and still could not devise a play to get us seven. Dick let this become a game trying to play it safe, dropping his safeties way off the ball and cover the sidelines to tackel them in bounds to keep the clock runnning. This was a page out Bill Cowpricks book of how to play playoff football. I am thrilled, on cloud nine that we won the game but make no mistake it was won by Big Ben and not this coaching staff. The no huddle took the game away from BA and into Ben's hands. There is your true MVP. Ariens needs fired, Dick needs to be on a shorter leash from Tomlin. The players play their hearts out for Dick and that is more than half the battle but he is not a head coach for a reason. MT needs to remember that, and the buck stops with him.

Here here!! Well stated, Power!! Very, very astute post. Well done. I encourage you to keep up the good work.