View topic - Good News from Iraqi

[thesteelhammer Profile]

Nice to see this stuff out of that area of the world.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,376747,00.html

Report: Uranium Stockpile Removed From Iraq in Secret U.S. Mission
Saturday, July 05, 2008

The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program — a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium — reached a Canadian port Saturday to complete a secret U.S. operation that included a two-week airlift from Baghdad and a ship voyage crossing two oceans.

The removal of 550 metric tons of "yellowcake" — the seed material for higher-grade nuclear enrichment — was a significant step toward closing the books on Saddam's nuclear legacy. It also brought relief to U.S. and Iraqi authorities who had worried the cache would reach insurgents or smugglers crossing to Iran to aid its nuclear ambitions.

What is now left is the final and complicated push to clean up the remaining radioactive debris at the former Tuwaitha nuclear complex about 12 miles (19 kilometers) south of Baghdad — using teams that include Iraqi experts recently trained in the Chernobyl fallout zone in Ukraine.

"Everyone is very happy to have this safely out of Iraq," said a senior U.S. official who outlined the nearly three-month operation to The Associated Press. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject.

While yellowcake alone is not considered potent enough for a so-called "dirty bomb" — a conventional explosive that disperses radioactive material — it could stir widespread panic if incorporated in a blast. Yellowcake also can be enriched for use in reactors and, at higher levels, nuclear weapons using sophisticated equipment.

The Iraqi government sold the yellowcake to a Canadian uranium producer, Cameco Corp., in a transaction the official described as worth "tens of millions of dollars." A Cameco spokesman, Lyle Krahn, declined to discuss the price, but said the yellowcake will be processed at facilities in Ontario for use in energy-producing reactors.

"We are pleased ... that we have taken (the yellowcake) from a volatile region into a stable area to produce clean electricity," he said.

The deal culminated more than a year of intense diplomatic and military initiatives — kept hushed in fear of ambushes or attacks once the convoys were under way: first carrying 3,500 barrels by road to Baghdad, then on 37 military flights to the Indian Ocean atoll of Diego Garcia and finally aboard a U.S.-flagged ship for a 8,500-mile trip to Montreal.

And, in a symbolic way, the mission linked the current attempts to stabilize Iraq with some of the high-profile claims about Saddam's weapons capabilities in the buildup to the 2003 invasion.

Accusations that Saddam had tried to purchase more yellowcake from the African nation of Niger — and an article by a former U.S. ambassador refuting the claims — led to a wide-ranging probe into Washington leaks that reached high into the Bush administration.

Tuwaitha and an adjacent research facility were well known for decades as the centerpiece of Saddam's nuclear efforts.

Israeli warplanes bombed a reactor project at the site in 1981. Later, U.N. inspectors documented and safeguarded the yellowcake, which had been stored in aging drums and containers since before the 1991 Gulf War. There was no evidence of any yellowcake dating from after 1991, the official said.

U.S. and Iraqi forces have guarded the 23,000-acre (9,300-hectare) site — surrounded by huge sand berms — following a wave of looting after Saddam's fall that included villagers toting away yellowcake storage barrels for use as drinking water cisterns.

Yellowcake is obtained by using various solutions to leach out uranium from raw ore and can have a corn meal-like color and consistency. It poses no severe risk if stored and sealed properly. But exposure carries well-documented health concerns associated with heavy metals such as damage to internal organs, experts say.

"The big problem comes with any inhalation of any of the yellowcake dust," said Doug Brugge, a professor of public health issues at the Tufts University School of Medicine.

Moving the yellowcake faced numerous hurdles.

Diplomats and military leaders first weighed the idea of shipping the yellowcake overland to Kuwait's port on the Persian Gulf. Such a route, however, would pass through Iraq's Shiite heartland and within easy range of extremist factions, including some that Washington claims are aided by Iran. The ship also would need to clear the narrow Strait of Hormuz at the mouth of the Gulf, where U.S. and Iranian ships often come in close contact.

Kuwaiti authorities, too, were reluctant to open their borders to the shipment despite top-level lobbying from Washington.

An alternative plan took shape: shipping out the yellowcake on cargo planes.

But the yellowcake still needed a final destination. Iraqi government officials sought buyers on the commercial market, where uranium prices spiked at about $120 per pound last year. It's currently selling for about half that. The Cameco deal was reached earlier this year, the official said.

At that point, U.S.-led crews began removing the yellowcake from the Saddam-era containers — some leaking or weakened by corrosion — and reloading the material into about 3,500 secure barrels.

In April, truck convoys started moving the yellowcake from Tuwaitha to Baghdad's international airport, the official said. Then, for two weeks in May, it was ferried in 37 flights to Diego Garcia, a speck of British territory in the Indian Ocean where the U.S. military maintains a base.

On June 3, an American ship left the island for Montreal, said the official, who declined to give further details about the operation.

The yellowcake wasn't the only dangerous item removed from Tuwaitha.

Earlier this year, the military withdrew four devices for controlled radiation exposure from the former nuclear complex. The lead-enclosed irradiation units, used to decontaminate food and other items, contain elements of high radioactivity that could potentially be used in a weapon, according to the official. Their Ottawa-based manufacturer, MDS Nordion, took them back for free, the official said.

The yellowcake was the last major stockpile from Saddam's nuclear efforts, but years of final cleanup is ahead for Tuwaitha and other smaller sites.

The U.N.'s International Atomic Energy Agency plans to offer technical expertise.

Last month, a team of Iraqi nuclear experts completed training in the Ukrainian ghost town of Pripyat, which once housed the Chernobyl workers before the deadly meltdown in 1986, said an IAEA official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the decontamination plan has not yet been publicly announced.

But the job ahead is enormous, complicated by digging out radioactive "hot zones" entombed in concrete during Saddam's rule, said the IAEA official. Last year, an IAEA safety expert, Dennis Reisenweaver, predicted the cleanup could take "many years."

The yellowcake issue also is one of the many troubling footnotes of the war for Washington.

A CIA officer, Valerie Plame, claimed her identity was leaked to journalists to retaliate against her husband, former Ambassador Joe Wilson, who wrote that he had found no evidence to support assertions that Iraq tried to buy additional yellowcake from Niger.

A federal investigation led to the conviction of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice.

[sarka196 Profile]

Funny...I thought all this time that Saddam didn't have any of this kind of stuff anymore?

[GodfatherofSoul Profile]

Here's what's so funny about this story. You've got some people pushing it as a "Bush was right" vindication; completely forgetting that Bush created the myth that Iraq was trying to acquire yellow cake from Niger, when we knew they had TONS of it laying around already. Americans don't have any memory when it comes to politics. The whole Joe Wilson scandal was about him debunking Bush's claim that Iraqis were trying to get it from Niger to jump start their nuclear program. BTW, yellow cake isn't a WMD and it takes a lot of work to get uranium from it (which the Iraqis weren't even close to being able to do).

Just like the BS aluminum tubes myth Bush cooked up.

[baumblvd Profile]

If you read the article, you'll see that this yellowcake material was left-over from before 1991 and was known to the UN inspectors. What was untrue (apparently) was the allegation that he was trying to get MORE from Africa in order to make WMD.

So, there is nothing in the story to vindicate the administration's WMD exaggerations or to diminish its culpability in the Plame affair.

[The Fan Of STEEL Profile]

If you read the article, you'll see that this yellowcake material was left-over from before 1991 and was known to the UN inspectors. What was untrue (apparently) was the allegation that he was trying to get MORE from Africa in order to make WMD.

So, there is nothing in the story to vindicate the administration's WMD exaggerations or to diminish its culpability in the Plame affair.

Shhhhhh, don't tell the war mongers this, it will get their spirits down and say that you are not supporting the troops or something similar.
This war was nothing but a fucking waste of time, money, and lives. America is in such need of rebuilt infrastructure, problems with the price of food and gasoline, and health care that few can afford. Imagine what we could have spent those billions and billions of dollars on. The Bushies bent America over and assraped her.


Personally, I'm glad they got rid of the stuff. Now if we could just get America to do that we would all be better off.

[lynchcowher Profile]

We're winning! We're winning in Iraq!!!!!!

I don't know what the fuck we're winning over there, aside from more terrorists ofcourse, but I'm sure our little nuclear armed friend feels better.

[Stillustronic Profile]

550 metric tons of yellowcake represents a sizable commodity and one that Saddam isn't likely going to give away. Sanctions most likely limited his ability to sell this ore. Also, he probably did fantasize about one day having a nuclear program.
Did he try to obtain equipment to do something with it? I don't know. But the weapons inspectors never found an indication of that (from what I understand) and it turns out there was no evidence of that post Iraq war II.

As it has already been mentioned, the yellow cake was known to the US and UN prior to Iraq war II. It's existence isn't at all amazing. It's presence doesn't mean anything other than Saddam had a stock pile commodity that he couldn't do anything with.

Yellowcake is uranium oxide (actually U3O8), and is an intermediate step in metallurgical refinement of uranium from ore. Like the ore itself, it is some very small fraction U238 and mostly U235 with a few other very small percentages of other isotopes, plus a pile of oxygen. It is converted to uranium hexafluoride (a corrisive gas) and then run through the centrifuges or other separation to create enriched uranium for whatever purpose (bombs or breeder reactors). The U235 left over after the 238 is extracted is "depleted uranium", slightly alpha radioactive and very dense (just about the densest material naturally available, and certainly the densist common one). It's used in munition not because it is radioactive but rather because it has very high density, the better to be able to break through tank armour and cause holes or spalling of the inside of the armour, lethal to the crew.

The US and UK have been phasing out the use of depleted uranium (DU) ammunition since the early part of the decade. The vast majority of the US's stockpiles have been replaced by tungsten-based ammunition. What little DU ammo is left is in the form of low-radiation "Staballoy", alloyed with other metals, such as titanium or molybdenum.

The primary hazard with DU is heavy metal toxicity. DU is particularly bad for this, as it is pyrophoric, and on impact, the surface burns off rather than deforming (keeping the tip of the round sharp enough to effectively penetrate armour, aka "self-sharpening"), with larger fragments also oxidizing rapidly (which is also desirable, as it increased the likelihood of a target vehicle's fuel and/or ammunition exploding), creating a lot of highly toxic uranium oxide.
Despite being phased out as ammunition, DU is still in use as vehicle armor.

[lynchcowher Profile]

I wonder how much of this stuff israel has?????????

[GodfatherofSoul Profile]

I wonder how much of this stuff israel has?????????

Israel doesn't need it. They already have ~200 nukes that Western nations pretend they don't have. And, you wonder why other Middle Eastern nations are trying to nuke up as well?

[sarka196 Profile]

We're winning! We're winning in Iraq!!!!!!

Shhhhhhhhhhhh! I hate to tell you this, but even Barry Obamessiah is having a hard time denying that we are winning in Iraq. And I really hate to tell you, but...I told you so.

[The Fan Of STEEL Profile]

We're winning! We're winning in Iraq!!!!!!

Shhhhhhhhhhhh! I hate to tell you this, but even Barry Obamessiah is having a hard time denying that we are winning in Iraq. And I really hate to tell you, but...I told you so.

I don't blame McCain for portraying the drop in violence in Iraq is because of the surge. He put his chance of being elected on it. However, the reason there was a drop in violence was because Muqtada al-Sadr ordered his Mahdi Army to stand down. There is a direct correlation between the cease fire and when violence began to decrease in Iraq. The surge started to have an effect after the fact. We also started paying Sunnis not to attack U.S. troops. The other reason is that the fight is being brought to Afghanistan.

Whatever you want to call a win in Iraq cost us thousands of lives and billions of dollars. It was a fucking waste.

[GodfatherofSoul Profile]

We're winning! We're winning in Iraq!!!!!!

Shhhhhhhhhhhh! I hate to tell you this, but even Barry Obamessiah is having a hard time denying that we are winning in Iraq. And I really hate to tell you, but...I told you so.

I don't blame McCain for portraying the drop in violence in Iraq is because of the surge. He put his chance of being elected on it. However, the reason there was a drop in violence was because Muqtada al-Sadr ordered his Mahdi Army to stand down. There is a direct correlation between the cease fire and when violence began to decrease in Iraq. The surge started to have an effect after the fact. We also started paying Sunnis not to attack U.S. troops. The other reason is that the fight is being brought to Afghanistan.

Whatever you want to call a win in Iraq cost us thousands of lives and billions of dollars. It was a fucking waste.

Damn, you beat me to it! Glad to see there are other people interested enough in the news to get past the bumper sticker BS like "The surge is working."

[sarka196 Profile]

Shhhhhhhhhhhh! I hate to tell you this, but even Barry Obamessiah is having a hard time denying that we are winning in Iraq. And I really hate to tell you, but...I told you so.

I don't blame McCain for portraying the drop in violence in Iraq is because of the surge. He put his chance of being elected on it. However, the reason there was a drop in violence was because Muqtada al-Sadr ordered his Mahdi Army to stand down. There is a direct correlation between the cease fire and when violence began to decrease in Iraq. The surge started to have an effect after the fact. We also started paying Sunnis not to attack U.S. troops. The other reason is that the fight is being brought to Afghanistan.

Whatever you want to call a win in Iraq cost us thousands of lives and billions of dollars. It was a fucking waste.

Damn, you beat me to it! Glad to see there are other people interested enough in the news to get past the bumper sticker BS like "The surge is working."

You guys are classic. You're right, it had nothing to do with our troops. They just happen to be at the right place at the right time. I should believe you because you're the Middle East experts. Afterall, all of you geniuses predicted the surge would INCREASE the violence. I know...

It's because Muqtada al-Sadr ordered his Mahdi Army to stand down. Wonder why he did that?

No, no...it's because we started paying Sunnis. Yeah, that's the ticket. They only work for the highest bidder.

No, no...it's because the fight is being brought to Afghanistan. Agian, I wonder why that is?

Oh, I know! It's because Barry Obamessiah threatened to pull the troops out.



So, even now as the rest of the world (including Barry) can see that the strategy worked you idiots still will not give credit where credit is due. Like I said...classic liberal BS. The next phase of liberal BS has already started. You know...the part where you claim (like Barry is) that you always knew the surge would decrease violence and then you start claiming responsibility for the success. Right out of the text book.

This is gunna be fun to watch.

[The Fan Of STEEL Profile]

The surge is only one of many factors that has reduced violence in Iraq, but it is by far not the main reason. If the surge is the reason why there is less violence in Iraq, then why did the violence get worse in 2005 when we undertook a troop surge of similar magnitude? If the surge is the reason that violence decreased, then that calm should be evaporating now that U.S. forces are being reduced to pre-surge levels. McCain wants everyone to think the surge is the sole reason and has laid his election on just that. Other factors besides the surge are more important in improving conditions and paying Sunnis not to attack U.S. troops being one of the biggest. You stop those payments and watch what happens.
Saying the reason for the decrease in violence is because of the surge is a gross oversimplification.

Because of the payoffs to Muqtada al-Sadr and his Shi'ite militia, to get their forces to quit attacking U.S. troops, the majority of Suni militants are no longer fighting against American forces in Iraq. They are now fighting with us against al-Qaeda.
Now take into account the slight increase in troop strength from the surge.
Which of the two is more significant? These people don't mind fighting and dying, and the surge would not have had any effect without the payoffs. Extra bodies on the ground did little, it was the change in tactics... Cutting deals and hiring those who were previously attacking us and showing respect by working with various tribal leaders.

[sarka196 Profile]

I don't think I'll take the time to repeat myself on this site as I did on...another site. Needless to say, I guess it was all just dumb luck on our troops part to have the luxury of observing this miraculous turnabout. Right time, right place kinda thingy. Convenient observers, they were. Got ya. Good thing we had that slight (30,000 is slight?) increase of troops so more of our guys could sit around and watch it all take place before their very eyes.



Are you sure Obamessiah didn't just perform some sort of miracle? You know, waive his hands in the air, part the Red Sea sorta stuff. I am sure he could have if he had wanted.

Extra bodies on the ground did little, it was the change in tactics.

Extra bodies enabled the change of tactics, nimrod.

[GodfatherofSoul Profile]

I don't think I'll take the time to repeat myself on this site as I did on...another site. Needless to say, I guess it was all just dumb luck on our troops part to have the luxury of observing this miraculous turnabout. Right time, right place kinda thingy. Convenient observers, they were. Got ya. Good thing we had that slight (30,000 is slight?) increase of troops so more of our guys could sit around and watch it all take place before their very eyes.



Are you sure Obamessiah didn't just perform some sort of miracle? You know, waive his hands in the air, part the Red Sea sorta stuff. I am sure he could have if he had wanted.

Extra bodies on the ground did little, it was the change in tactics.

Extra bodies enabled the change of tactics, nimrod.

Hey Sarka, do you think a cease fire and Sunni awakening that happened BEFORE the surge might have something to do with it? Do you really think adding 20,000 troops to about 150,000 really would have that much of an impact? Go back to bumper sticker slogans, this is way too complicated for you to understand. You're precisely the kind of voter that moronic Swiftboating attacks are aimed at.

[thesteelhammer Profile]

How come when things are going bad it is all the administrations fault, but when things are going well their policies are "just one of many factors"?

[GodfatherofSoul Profile]

How come when things are going bad it is all the administrations fault, but when things are going well their policies are "just one of many factors"?

This isn't a "Bush is evil" rant we're on. First, you have to understand that terrorism isn't what's been the problem in Iraq. EVER. Al Qaeda has caused a small part of the violence in Iraq. And, after the Sunni Awakening, as they call it, what Al Qaeda there was in Iraq was driven out. And, Al Qaeda in Iraq was never Al Qaeda, it was a copy-cat organization that was using the name and loose contacts with the real Al Qaeda; but was actually pissing off real Al Qaeda by acting like an Iraqi Militia. And, Iraqi Militias were causing the lion's share of violence based on sectarian violence based on intra- and inter-sect conflicts. Think Catholic and Protestant Irish killing each other; just way more complicated.

The country has been largely segregated by now, so you don't have many integrated neighborhoods. Note, this isn't like American suburbs. You're talking about houses that families have lived in for centuries now forced into sectarian neighborhoods for safety. On top of that, we've been paying off these militias to stop fighting. Yes, the people who've been planting IEDs and killing our soldiers are now on our payroll. That doesn't mean that they aren't going to make power plays when we're gone. This is a temporary peace, which is why Bush doesn't want to leave Iraq. He KNOWS the conflict he's set up, like winding up a jack-in-the-box. And, don't think Bush wants order. Why else would the US "lose" 200,000 military weapons on the streets of Iraq?

Why chaos? Because in chaos we have an excuse to keep our forces in Iraq and sitting on top of the 2nd largest oil reserve in the world. I am very worried that this temporary peace we have is just cover to get the neo-cons through the next election cycle.

The biggest problem with discussing Iraq in this country is that everything has been demagogued into stupid and inaccurate bumper sticker slogans. Unless you really pay attention to what's happening, all you're doing is regurgitating some campaign manager's talking points.

[sarka196 Profile]

That is all part of Counterterrorism/Counterinsurgency (COIN). Apparently you think the Anbar Awakening and the Shi’a militia stand-downs that have occurred are somehow separate developments from the surge, which is a remarkable feat of logic in and of itself, but you are also implying that al-Qaeda abondoning Iraq for Afghanistan is also completely independent of our COIN strategy in Iraq.

I would remind the you that the Anbar Salvation Council (which later grew and developed into the Iraq Awakening) started with Sheikh Abdul Sattar Abu al-Risha and about seventy men from his tribe fighting al-Qaeda in defense of their families and with the assistance of our troops in Al Anbar. Sheikh Abdul Sattar who was later assassinated by al-Qaeda in Iraq, had seen 10 family members, including 4 brothers, killed by al-Qaeda for their cooperation with US forces. He had had enough. They simply wanted to live and end al-Qaeda’s assassination and murdering spree against their families and tribe. Do you truely believe that they only turned because we paid them to? If so, then you are a complete idiot.

Had we followed Barry's plan and withdrawn US forces to the periphery “in more of a counterterrorism role" (as we had been doing prior to the Surge) or redeployed completely we would have abandoned the Anbar Salvation Council entirely during it's infancy. It would have been like feeding babies to bloodthirsty wolves.

You correctly pointed out that without the Sunni Awakening and the decline of the Shiite militias we would not have enjoyed the success we do today. Granted, lots of things contributed to our success. Without the surge, however, al Qaeda would have cut the head off Sunni leaders, as they did in 2005, and the Shiite militias would never have gone into decline.

My son was in Anbar BEFORE the surge and met (and worked with) people involved in the Awakening. They hate al Qaeda with a passion and we certainly could not have defeated the bad guys without their help. But without our help, THEY could not have defeated the bad guys either. Our friends would have been isolated and killed individually or in small groups, along with their families, and others would have been intimidated into silence. They had neither the strength nor the equipment to defeat them on their own. I don’t have to speculate about this. We saw those things happened in 2005 and we still could see them happening on a smaller scale even in the time since then. Our COIN strategy was first implemented by the Marines in Ramadi and Al Anbar Province BEFORE the surge began. Their success in that region played a HUGH factor in the adoption of that strategy in other parts of Iraq.

Winning the counterinsurgency is about aligning a population with us. Neither of these, counterterrorism nor counterinsurgency, could have been successfully addressed by "The Plan" put forth by Obama and others in opposition to The Surge. The Surge was all about protecting the population within their own neighborhoods, while "The Obama Plan" was about abandoning said population to complete animals unassisted. Yet, Obama and others such as you would oppose it all over again? That is like opposing the D-Day plan after France was liberated during WWII.

The Iraqis have done what they have done for themselves in spite of the likes of Obama, Schumer, Pelosi and all the rest. Now that The Surge has accomplished much of what it set out to do to help the Iraqis, those same people who had absolutely no clue about the Anbar Salvation Council when it was pleading and begging for US support since at least September of 2006 when my son and his unit was deployed to Ramadi are claiming that the Surge had nothing to do with it. The worst of it is that those who have opposed the war in Iraq the entire time will now try and somehow claim responsibility for this success and not give credit to those who truely deserve it. How's it go..."victory has many fathers..."

Let me be as blunt as I can. The surge worked. Those who opposed the surge were wrong. Just as some of the previous tactics used in Iraq were wrong. I feel justified in being so blunt because of all the defeatism and negativity we have had over the past five years. I will not accept that those who told people like me or my son that we were stupid for thinking we could win in Iraq and were chumps for volunteering can now pretend that the success in Iraq would have happened anyway without our sacrifices and the sacrifices of all those soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines involved.

The success of the surge is giving us the options of bringing our troops home in victory. But it is important to remember HOW we got to this point and don’t pretend that it was just dumb luck.

Foreign fighters that had been heading to Iraq now are on their way to Afghanistan. Why? Because they know they are defeated in Iraq. If WE had been defeated in Iraq in 2006, they would still be going to Afghanistan, but with greater confidence and resolve and in greater numbers. AND they would still be going to Iraq. Iraq and Afghanistan are not the same war, but they are linked.

Foreign terrorists will fight us where they think they can hurt us. That WAS Iraq before the Surge. It may be Afghanistan now because our success in Iraq has made it too hard and too costly for the bad guys there. That is just true in every war. You try to strike at your opponents weakest points. You try to avoid where they are strongly defended.

If we keep the initative, we have more choices about WHERE we fight them, but we do not have a choice about IF we will fight them. People who support extremists respond to the same sorts of pressures and incentives as other people. When being a jihadist is easy and it looks like success is at hand, lots of people want to volunteer or at least be on the winning side. As it gets harder or more dangerous, this support dries up. Fighting terrorists does not create more IF it is done properly. I would think that you could understand that concept because many of you use that same argument when discussing our own military recruiting efforts.

Extremist ideologies decline only AFTER they have been defeated or discredited. Nazism didn’t decline by itself. It went into terminal decline after it was defeated by force of arms. Until then, it looked like the wave of the future. In 1941 things looked different than they did in 1945. A similar bit of historic fate befell Soviet Marxism. Although in their case it was primarily an economic and political defeat, these forces were backed by forty years of resolve and military strength on the part of the U.S. and our allies (to say nothing of the mega-tons of nukes parked on their doorstep). Why does anybody think extremist jihadists would go away without a fight?

Why do you think al-Sadr pulled his malitia from the streets and he high-tailed it to Iran? Because we paid them? It's because we were now able to take the fight to them (and kicked their asses, I might add).

So, come on now Barry and the rest of you...just say it slowly. You were WRONG. And for once give credit where credit is due...to our troops and their leaders that (finally) planned and executed a good strategy.

Afterall, most of you agreed with Harry Reid in March (before all the Surge units even arrived in country) that the war was lost and that the Surge had failed. I was the one pointing to the Anbar Awakening and the turn around going on there and I was the one being belittled for taking that stance. Most of you said I was full of shit then when I talked about it. So, don't give me this johnny-come-lately BS. Just admit you were wrong. The war was not lost and the Surge worked. You were WRONG (again).

[thesteelhammer Profile]

Why would they admit they were wrong when they can just keep the spin going?