View topic - Question regarding Santonio

[UncommonSteel Profile]

First, I'd like to say hello to all my fellow Steelers fans. I am of course new to the board after having lurked for around a year or so (Finally got up the courage to join the "fierce" debating that occurs here).

Anyway, I've noticed over the last few weeks a sense of general disappointment in the way that Santonio has performed this year. I believe the term "Bust" has been used a few times; coupled with the sense that this being his third year, Holmes should be producing more.

Well, I took the time to look up Ward's stats from his third year and compare them to Santonio's Stats this year. They are remarkably similar.

Ward / Holmes

Games 16 / 14

Receptions 48 / 47

Yards 672 / 697

Avg. 14 / 14.8

Yards/Gm 42 / 53.6

Touchdowns 4 / 4

Now, some may disagree, but to me, stats don't lie. These stats tend to tell me that Holmes, in his third year with the team has had as good a year, if not better than Ward had in his third year. They are equal in almost every category, but, Holmes has two more regular season games to improve upon his stats.

I think we can all agree that Hines Ward, was not, has not been and will never be a "Bust" .... I believe that we will also end up saying the same of Santonio.

[indysteel Profile]

It's hard for me to remember Hines in his third year. He's been doing it well for so long that I guess I just assumed that was always the case.

That being said, there are two differences between the two:

1. Hines has not had (as I can recall) the "dumb ass attacks" that Tokio has. Tokio has had his share of run in with the law.

2. Tokio is not consistent as was Hines. Now, that could be more speculation on my part. I just don't remember Hines being inconsistent or taking plays off like Tokio seems to do.

I'm not ready to call him a bust......but it's getting harder and harder to see a real difference between him and NateNate "Crisco" Washington.

[Pommah Profile]

I think IndySteel hits the nail on the head here....Holmes is too inconsistent, and too stupid from time to time. He does show up on big plays but he also makes bone-headed mistakes at key times as well. Think about that misfielded punt....we got dam lucky there, completely different game if we don't recover that. And to be a 3rd year NFL player riding around with pot in your vehicle, that shows a serious lack of gray matter.

The guy's in a contract year next year, so of course he'll have a big year. But we let him go, as some idiot team will pay him more than he's worth, like for Randle-El or Plexiglas. Think about it, would we really want Plax on the team? They make a big deal about his making the winning catch in the SB last year, but he also dropped 3 easy catches in that game. To say nothing of his little incident at the night club recently. Guys who don't show enough judgement to save the doobies for the off-season are not worth the big bucks at contract time.

All the more reason why it is important to develop Sweed.

[Teegre Profile]

Hines was still learning the position in his third year. He played WR, RB, & QB in college. He was a project.
Conversely, all that Santonio has ever played is WR.

More importantly, I think it comes down to mental "toughness."
Ward looks the ball in, and always puts forth 100% effort.
Whereas, Santonio (& Nate) tend to lose focus. Those two guys break ankles out there (i.e. get open), but then they all too often forget the most important part of playing wide-out: catching the ball.

By the way, Sweed is more like Ward than those other two. Sweed is not the fastest nor the most "gifted" receiver...but, he looks the ball in on every play, puts forth 100% effort, and he is a "student" of the game. I know, I know, Sweed has fumbled in his first few games as a receiver...but, like Ward, Sweed will learn from his mistakes (i.e. I do not see this being a problem in the long run).

Anyway, back to the point...Santonio is what he is: a guy who can get open...but, might drop the ball.
And, alas, that might never change.

[Hagerstown Steelman Profile]

I would not call Holmes a bust at all. Sure I wish he would not do some of the stupid stuff off of the field but one incident since the two about a month after we drafted him is not the worst. I do wish he was more of a model citizen. That being said to the on field stuff.

How many passes can the guy really catch. Ben has 247 completions this year (actually he only had 264 last year). Hines has 68, Nate Miller and moore with 35 each, plus homes with 50ish. That is 220 of the receptions on the team right there. Unless we air it out more I doubt he will catch a ton more. Actually, I like the spread in receptions as it shows we have a lot of options to keep other defenses guessing.

First Tonio:

I don't think Tonio is in a contract year next year. He signed a 5 year 8.1 Mil deal after the draft. He could resign net year if the Steelers opt to do so with a year left on his contract. However, as far as receivers go he gives good value compared to other #2 receivers in the league. Tonio does have 6 dropped passes this year (by one account I saw on the Washington Post (Note that Hines has had seven). I would expect Hines to catch a few more passes since he runs more of the quick slants and WR screens. My knock on Tonio is that I have noticed he does not always react to the blitz and does not always turn around for a pass coming his way.

Hines:

What can you say. He is a rock. His leadership and prescense on the field is second to none. Plus he is fearless when blocking. He has seven drops this year. Not sure how this compares to his other seasons. It seems to me like Hines has been flagged more this year for holds, false starts, etc than other years. Anyway the knock on Hines is only how many years are left? Plus one injury now could do him in.

Nate:

Could be out of Pgh next year. Last year he signed a 1yr 1.4 Mil contract. So he is probably making more than Tonio this year. He has his problems with drops as well but has shown the ability for the deep ball. I like Nate but am not sure if he could be #2 receiver. In a 3-WR set he will typically get single coverage or be able to find the crease in a cover 2. I am sure the Steelers will try to keep resign him since he knows the system. Will depend on if another team want to outbid us.

Sweed:

Again hard to tell here. I think we need to see his progress into next year. No doubt Tonio saw the field more his rookie year but he was drafted as the #3 receiver and only had to over take Cedric Wilson as the #2. Sweed has Hines, Tonio, and Washington in front of him. All vetrans with 3+ years int he offense.

My Take;

I would like to think that all 4 will be with the team next year and atleast 3 of the 4 will as Nate is the only free agent and I would like to see him back. I don't think Baker is more than a role player at best. I would like to see Baker go and possibly draft a guy that can actually return KO's with speed.

I would like to see Tonio's numbers be higher. However, no receiver in our offense will have gaudy stats. Especially with the line issues we have had. Tonio is not going to the Pro Bowl but we could do a lot worse.

[Hagerstown Steelman Profile]

One other item.

Hines, Tonio, Nate, and Sweed give the Steelers a WR core that is similar to what we have at RB (with FWP, Moore, and Mendenhall).

You have four capble guys (assuming Sweed matures into his second year). No one is going to have T.O or Reggie Wayne talent but you have 4 guys who can all beat you. Actually, it is 5 since Heath Miller can do damge as well.

Good Thread as always here.

[El Nino Profile]

santonio has been inconsistent, but one thing going for him was he comes up big when we need it. he had the long catch in the dallas game that sparked the O and the game winner at baltimore. he's going through off the field issues but im sure he'll recover from it.

i want nate washington to stay on the team but i doubt he will. he's shown enough talent to the point where another team will offer him money that we won't show him