View topic - New Article: Loose Slag from The Still Mill

[steph12 Profile]

reading comprehension??? my friend you have no idea what comprehension is...his shoulder is done-not just for this year but for the next as well if they continue to paly him...they've invested lots in him and they should be preserving him for the playoffs....think for a moment if he injures himself more! there aren't too many "starting" QB's out there that can be summoned in an instant to come in and take over. so get him healthy and let leftwich play. i love the guy and what he did for the team during his first year and his super bowl season but the facts are the facts...he cannot continue to manage the game the way he does. you know as well as everyone else knows that injuries are part of the game but any QB much like a pitcher in baseball when the shoulder is injured or the rotator cuff is gone that's the end of the career.......geez, just go back in the history of the game and it's proof. i don't want to keep knocking him because he is a very good quarterback but we're not beating San Diego this weekend with him in there. you can't keep throwing the ball 40 times a game with him. he needs time off. he wasn't even able to high five anyone after their first score. he is definitely injured wayyyy more than they're saying for obvious reasons. this is almost like when brady was injured last season through the playoffs. nobody wanted to admit that his ankle was a mess. my point is that around a QB's 5th to 7th season, depending on his health and abilities, is the time to start recruiting. my hope is that he comes back to the level he was last year but there are only 8 games left and it would be a shame for them to lose the division and playoff hopes simply because he was signed to a huge contract. we're hurting at so many positions but that's the one position that needs a healthy leader at the helm. at any rate, you bring great stuff to the table and you know what you're talking about but i'd prefer that the team doesn't waste the season just for the sake of playing guys in positions based on salaries. good job man

[Jeemie Profile]

A slight shoulder separation is different from a rotator cuff.

He's got nothing that requires surgery.

You have zero evidence that his shoulder is permanently damaged. ZERO.

OTOH, I DO agree that if he is hurt worse than he's letting on that they should sit him. I think Tomlin's working towards that right now.

[Wooderson Profile]

Mill, you hit the nail on the head. The 3rd and 2 play at the end of the half was total shit. 3rd and 2, there are a million plays to call there, the least of which was a bunch on the strong side and throwing to the weak side on a one-on-one; it's obvious 'Tone can't win the ball. Call a conservative play there. If we don't make it; punt. We're up 10 points. MAKE the Colts beat you. Sure, the distance wouldn't be much different, but an INT late in the half like that affects momentum.

It was a frustrating game. Our D is good, Mill, regardless of what you think. But they can't be expected to bail the offense out time and time again. I'm not sure if it's Ben's shoulder or not. Maybe it is. Look at his numbers last year. Second to Brady. So what is the difference? The run game. Willie was leading the league last year before he got hurt. Now we don't have a run game that teams respect. So they tee off on Ben. MM has done a nice job; it's a perception thing, and that goes a long way in this league.

So we have a synergism of a hurt QB, a lame running game, and a retarded OC. It's up to Tomlin to fix this. We need to win the division. The Ravens have a tougher schedule from here on out. Lefty is capable. Rest Ben, get the guys healthy, hope to win a few, and make sure our main guys are ready to make the run. Let's face it, there is no powerhouse in the AFC this year. Are you afraid of the Titans?

[Jeemie Profile]

Mill, you hit the nail on the head. The 3rd and 2 play at the end of the half was total shit. 3rd and 2, there are a million plays to call there, the least of which was a bunch on the strong side and throwing to the weak side on a one-on-one; it's obvious 'Tone can't win the ball.

You may have disagreed with the playcall, but you cannot have seriously looked at what resulted from that play and say this.

Santonio wasn't even CLOSE to being the one at fault for this interception.

[Wooderson Profile]

It may have not been Santonio's fault, the pass most likely shouldn't have been made, but he has to GO TO THE BALL. In the least he should have recognized the pass and made move towards the ball. The only excuse is that the play was not called to him so he wasn't expecting it. Bottom line is that you have to be ball-side; position yourself between the ball and the defender. He didn't do that. So either he failed, or Ben failed, or Arians failed. Take your best guess...I didn't mean to place blame on Santonio.

I'm frustrated...

[Jeemie Profile]

It may have not been Santonio's fault, the pass most likely shouldn't have been made, but he has to GO TO THE BALL. In the least he should have recognized the pass and made move towards the ball. The only excuse is that the play was not called to him so he wasn't expecting it. Bottom line is that you have to be ball-side; position yourself between the ball and the defender. He didn't do that. So either he failed, or Ben failed, or Arians failed. Take your best guess...I didn't mean to place blame on Santonio.

I'm frustrated...

Ben failed- Santonio got position on his man, but Ben waited too long to throw the ball to him. He WAS ball-side.

By the time Ben threw, the DB had undercut the route and made the INT.

Santonio couldn't have done anything about that.

Ben should have thrown that as soon as Holmes got inside position back inside the 25. Holmes would have taken it to the house...the safety help over the top never would have gotten there in time.

Even late, a pass with loft onto Holmes' outside shoulder gets a big gainer.

They called that play earlier and Holmes took it for 23. Ratliffe was out of a job three weeks' prior. If you cant throw to Holmes manned up on Ratliffe, when CAN you throw it?

9 of 10 NFL QBs complete that pass for a big gainer.

[Hoppy Profile]

Agree, obvious on TV as well.

[Wooderson Profile]

I can't disagree dude now that you bring that up. would like 'tone to go to the ball harder though. Ultimatley it is on Ben though.

So what do you think? Sit him for a while? I think so. I'm thinking they didn't want Lefty in there because the Dolts had too much film on him. thinking Ben may sit this week, cause the Bolt's don't. Guess we will find out. We have to think about the long run. maybe we sit Ben for a week or two to get healthy. Worked for the SB run, eh?

Ben was so good last year. What happened? That is my thing. Not sure why. Think it's Arians. But he did so well last year, so what the heck?

[Nel Profile]

Ben's shoulder will heal; I am looking at the O-line as the main problem here.

The talent of the line makes Ben appear to be a bad quarterback, and with his injury, a very bad quarterback at times. Ben is playing somewhat weakly and confused due to the constant sack pressure.

Ben would be a great quarterback behind the Titans line talent level.

Santonio is not closing with much authority on balls, and looks a little weak to me over the middle of the field or near contact. He appears to be discouraged. I think he knows he is going to be history, as Rooney probably won't keep a pot smoker on the team.

[Jeemie Profile]

Ben's shoulder will heal; I am looking at the O-line as the main problem here.

The talent of the line makes Ben appear to be a bad quarterback, and with his injury, a very bad quarterback at times. Ben is playing somewhat weakly and confused due to the constant sack pressure.

Ben would be a great quarterback behind the Titans line talent level.

Santonio is not closing with much authority on balls, and looks a little weak to me over the middle of the field or near contact. He appears to be discouraged. I think he knows he is going to be history, as Rooney probably won't keep a pot smoker on the team.

It's a combination of a lot of things, I think.

In the long run, it may come down to Arians asking all his players on offense to do things they're not meant to do, and so they can't get any flow.

He's got mauling O-linemen in a zone-blocking scheme.

He's trying to make a gunslinging QB be a read and react pocket passer.

He's got all his WRs running 10+ yard routes.

He's got his best pass-catching tight end back to help with the pass pro.

He's got RBs with not the best vision or agility and trying to make them into one cut and go RBs, and won't use a FB to help them.

In short, he changed the system too fast and did nothing to try and get the players that best fit that system.

[deltadweller Profile]

Good points Jeemie. I think we have players for the passing portion, but no solid game plan week to week. Ben needs to rest. QB of the future and this year if and when he's healthy. I think he's hurt and gun shy right now. Everyone knew the O line was a problem coming in, except maybe Arians. With this line you have to throw quicker passes and fool the defense. I don't think we have the line or the type backs you need to line up and power run. We probably should play a little more like Philly this year. Moore has got most of his big runs when they're spread out in more typical pass protection. It's really hard to play Stiller football when you don't have the line or backs.

[Nel Profile]

Jeemie, I understand what you are saying and at one level your points make sense.

However, with a good OL your points of argument mainly disappear, IMO.

Everything distills to the OL (and then to Colbert/Tomlin/Arians) regarding the 2008 offensive woes.

[Leo Profile]

Ben will be fine, long term. No indicators right now that the shoulder is going to be a problem forever.

Injured Ben 2008 is too much like Injured Ben 2006. Recently, I'm cringing every time he drops back. Here comes a sack, or a quadruple-clutch, or a costly pick....

I love the guy, but get him out of there for a couple or 3 weeks.

[steph12 Profile]

you guys are all right...the offensive line is struggling but with Ben holding the ball too long clearly illustrates that he's not confident in his arm...he's throwing the ball semi-side arm for God's sake. Additionally thre isn't anyone in these forums that can definitively say that his injury is not a major one. He may in fact have a rotator cuff problem and if he's playing through any separation it's only going to worsen. someone also made a point abour Arians asking the o line to do things they're not capable of doing so I guess we'll see how it plays out on sunday. let's face it, we're a very banged up team but that doesn't mean we can't compete. the patriots for years would just fill the spot and get it done. we're petty much doing the same thing. there are some positives but they have to find a way to overcome this rash of injuries. I've heard people mention and it's very noticeable that Ben hasn't scrambled like he used to and you know it what he may be better off taking off and sliding on the grass than continuing to get beat up in the pocket. I also think they need to address the fact that they give up alot of 3rd and longs on D. That boggles my mind. Anybody out there notice the same things? Is there an answer as to why this has been their MO for ages?

[Lake37 Profile]

Ben will be fine, long term. No indicators right now that the shoulder is going to be a problem forever.

Injured Ben 2008 is too much like Injured Ben 2006. Recently, I'm cringing every time he drops back. Here comes a sack, or a quadruple-clutch, or a costly pick....

I love the guy, but get him out of there for a couple or 3 weeks.

I think this would be a great time to get Ben 2 weeks of rest. The Chargers aren't the team they were supposed to be and at home we should be able to beat them with Lefty. Then next week we have the Bengals who we can also beat with Lefty.

The other thing to look at is that the Ravens still have to play the entire NFC East, the Steelers, Jaguars, and then the Bengals. I know they are playing better than expected (mainly Falco), but I don't see them ending up better than 9-7.

To me it almost seems like Tomlin needs to decide if his goal is to win the division and limp into the playoffs (in which case you continue to play Ben) and have no shot of actually winning the whole thing b/c Ben will be so beat up come playoff time. Or he can decide to sit Ben for two weeks, risk the possibility of a loss, and give this team a legitimate opportunity to make a run at their 6th Lombardi.

If Ben doesn't rest we are not a Super Bowl contender, but with a healthy Ben we have a shot, and I would rather the team give themselves a shot at winning a super bowl than simply pile up as many regular season wins as possible and have no shot at contending.

[Jeemie Profile]

Ben will be fine, long term. No indicators right now that the shoulder is going to be a problem forever.

Injured Ben 2008 is too much like Injured Ben 2006. Recently, I'm cringing every time he drops back. Here comes a sack, or a quadruple-clutch, or a costly pick....

I love the guy, but get him out of there for a couple or 3 weeks.

I think this would be a great time to get Ben 2 weeks of rest. The Chargers aren't the team they were supposed to be and at home we should be able to beat them with Lefty. Then next week we have the Bengals who we can also beat with Lefty.

The other thing to look at is that the Ravens still have to play the entire NFC East, the Steelers, Jaguars, and then the Bengals. I know they are playing better than expected (mainly Falco), but I don't see them ending up better than 9-7.

To me it almost seems like Tomlin needs to decide if his goal is to win the division and limp into the playoffs (in which case you continue to play Ben) and have no shot of actually winning the whole thing b/c Ben will be so beat up come playoff time. Or he can decide to sit Ben for two weeks, risk the possibility of a loss, and give this team a legitimate opportunity to make a run at their 6th Lombardi.

If Ben doesn't rest we are not a Super Bowl contender, but with a healthy Ben we have a shot, and I would rather the team give themselves a shot at winning a super bowl than simply pile up as many regular season wins as possible and have no shot at contending.

Ben rested over the bye week, and the shoulder didn't get any better. One shot, and it was back to where it had been.

No guarantee that two weeks' rest would help.

AND, remember how Ben is coming in after a layoff. He takes the Chargers' and bengals' games off, and you got him cold going into Foxboro.

You want that?

The time to rest Ben to get his head in the game was last week (and we would have won, I think). That window may be closed now.

[steel GOD Profile]

First of all I want to say GO STEELERS to all. I have been a Steeler fan for a long time. Mill you are right about the majority of the statements made. However theres more that you forgot to mention.

[Leo Profile]

Jeemie -- good points, but we have to go back to the old cliche, who gives the Stillers the best chance to win. IF Ben's shoulder is as bad as it looked against Indy, then he needs to come out. If it's not that bad, I look for him to have a strong comeback game this week. His pride is wounded pretty good, and he'll be fired up to win, and to redeem himself a little bit.

[McLovin Profile]

McLovin no doctor, but as long as that shoulder continues to take hits its going to get worse not better. Ben practiced and is going to play but a coach with an eye toward the post season would let this guy heal. Sure its good Ben has pride as Leo says but takes more than pride to win games...a strong shoulder, protecting the football, and being able to throw from an upright position never hurts either. If Ben starts throwing ducks to Cromartie and co. Tomlin needs to have a quick hook and let Leftwich parlay a second half rally into a Thursday night start against the Bengirls.