View topic - Pgh loses SB with __ANY__ other QB other than Ben

[lloydrules Profile]

Even if Tom Brady or Manning is the QB, we don't win the SB. It's that simple.

God bless BB

[Hagerstown Steelman Profile]

Can not argue with you there. If anything stating the obvious.

I would not mind have either QB if I were starting a team. However, in the clutch and when the pocket breaks down BR7 is it.

Plus Ben is doing it with good but not great WR's.

[lloydrules Profile]

Can not argue with you there. If anything stating the obvious.

I would not mind have either QB if I were starting a team. However, in the clutch and when the pocket breaks down BR7 is it.

Plus Ben is doing it with good but not great WR's.

And even though we see this as obvious reality, the talking heads will be kissing the -sses of Manning, Breese and Brady all season long.

Brady or Manning would fold if they faced the heat BR7 does. All things being equal, we don't win a ring with any other QB last season.

Would I prefer BB not have to work miracles and had a good OL in front of him? Hell yes. With a strong OL we'd be looking at a dynasty

[McLovin Profile]

Even if Tom Brady or Manning is the QB, we don't win the SB. It's that simple.

Why not? Anyway kind of an unproveable point since neither guy actually played in that game. Anyway, your arguement is going to be that Ben's improvisational skills won the game. Then you'd say those two guys wouldn't hold up behind Steelers OL. Manning and especially Brady only need a second or two to find an open wr they're proven winners who would win as a Steeler qb but they would do it by getting rid of the ball in a hurry. It was a special game and a special game winning drive by Ben...don't cheapen it by playing the homer card saying he's the only guy who could do it.

[lloydrules Profile]

Even if Tom Brady or Manning is the QB, we don't win the SB. It's that simple.

Why not? Anyway kind of an unproveable point since neither guy actually played in that game. Anyway, your arguement is going to be that Ben's improvisational skills won the game. Then you'd say those two guys wouldn't hold up behind Steelers OL. Manning and especially Brady only need a second or two to find an open wr they're proven winners who would win as a Steeler qb but they would do it by getting rid of the ball in a hurry. It was a special game and a special game winning drive by Ben...don't cheapen it by playing the homer card saying he's the only guy who could do it.

Our receivers don't get open quickly, so your argument is stupid.

[McLovin Profile]

Even if Tom Brady or Manning is the QB, we don't win the SB. It's that simple.

Why not? Anyway kind of an unproveable point since neither guy actually played in that game. Anyway, your arguement is going to be that Ben's improvisational skills won the game. Then you'd say those two guys wouldn't hold up behind Steelers OL. Manning and especially Brady only need a second or two to find an open wr they're proven winners who would win as a Steeler qb but they would do it by getting rid of the ball in a hurry. It was a special game and a special game winning drive by Ben...don't cheapen it by playing the homer card saying he's the only guy who could do it.

Our receivers don't get open quickly, so your argument is stupid.

Our receivers don't get open quickly? That's too "stupid" to even argue. Are you the biggest homer on here? Ben's great and all but he doesn't walk on water. He can't throw the ball and then run down the field and catch his own fucking passes. Why do you have an obsession that Ben be the best qb in the league? For our team and our town he is the perfect fit but to say that Manning and Brady couldn't win the Super Bowl as Steeler qb is just "stupid."

[BigE Profile]

Not just the Super Bowl. The Steelers would not win alot of games with any other quarterback, including Manning and Brady. No QB does more with less than does BIG BEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gutofsteel Profile]

Our receivers don't get open quickly? That's too "stupid" to even argue. Are you the biggest homer on here? Ben's great and all but he doesn't walk on water. He can't throw the ball and then run down the field and catch his own fucking passes. Why do you have an obsession that Ben be the best qb in the league? For our team and our town he is the perfect fit but to say that Manning and Brady couldn't win the Super Bowl as Steeler qb is just "stupid."

I think the point is, whenever people talk about Ben "holding the ball", replays almost always show that no one is open. So they can get rid of the ball but they are just throwing it away. And since about half Ben's sacks come on 3rd down, they are just throwing it away to turn it over on downs.

Ben gets rid of the ball plenty quick when guys are open. Watch him in the no-huddle and tell me he doesn't have command of the offense and can't read a defense. You can't be that successful if you are poor at that. Occasionally protection just breaks down too quickly, and occasionally no one is open. I won't say Manning or Brady would be a lot worse than Ben, but no way do I think they'd be better in the same situation.

[anthonyc20 Profile]

Probably couldn't have won a super bowl w/o holmes or harrison as well

Could add Troy, Woodley, Ward and Farrior

[indysteel Profile]

It's not a logical argument.

How would we know if -- or how many -- Super Bowls we would win with BR7, Manning, or Brady as the QB? To many variables in this analysis (injuries, OL, WR talent, OC, etc...etc...).

Perhaps had we had Manning or Brady we would not have NEEDED a last minute drive to win.

BR7 is a franchise QB. He fits in well in Pittsburgh. I also recall people on this board calling for Leftwich last season as well.

[lloydrules Profile]

[/quote]
Our receivers don't get open quickly, so your argument is stupid.[/quote]
Our receivers don't get open quickly? That's too "stupid" to even argue. Are you the biggest homer on here? Ben's great and all but he doesn't walk on water. He can't throw the ball and then run down the field and catch his own fucking passes. Why do you have an obsession that Ben be the best qb in the league? For our team and our town he is the perfect fit but to say that Manning and Brady couldn't win the Super Bowl as Steeler qb is just "stupid."[/quote]

Straw man argument, McDippo? I never said BB was the best QB in the league; I said we wouldn't have won the SB with _any_ other QB on _THIS_ team, dill hole.

There's a difference. Your lack of logic is whack. Do I think BB is the better QB for NE than Brady is? Nope. BB better than Manning in Indy?Nope. Never said that. Now, drop your pants, suck your thumb and walk down Main St. Your lack of working logic is astonishing.

[ILLSTILL Profile]

Miller and Ward are open on the short routes all the time. Sometimes I found myself pointing at the screen in frustration.

Aside from the Super Bowl run vs. epic defenses such as the chargers and cardinals, Ben did NOT have a good year. But he had a hell of a year in the 4th quarter.

No one can deny what he did against the Redskins this year.

Ben is a good qb, and works magnificently in our system. Maybe some day we'll have an OC who will want more of a quick-passing system, and Ben will show another side, good or bad.

For now, we will continue to hold our breath on damn near every play.

[StillViews Profile]

McLovin is the man. Intelligent comments and the greatest screen name on this message board.

[lloydrules Profile]

McLovin is the man. Intelligent comments and the greatest screen name on this message board.

Never mind the fact that he suffers from straw man arguments and a departure from logic. As you were

[ILLSTILL Profile]

Is there a post missing?

[lloydrules Profile]

Our receivers don't get open quickly, so your argument is stupid.
Our receivers don't get open quickly? That's too "stupid" to even argue. Are you the biggest homer on here? Ben's great and all but he doesn't walk on water. He can't throw the ball and then run down the field and catch his own fucking passes. Why do you have an obsession that Ben be the best qb in the league? For our team and our town he is the perfect fit but to say that Manning and Brady couldn't win the Super Bowl as Steeler qb is just "stupid."

Straw man argument, McDippo? I never said BB was the best QB in the league; I said we wouldn't have won the SB with _any_ other QB on _THIS_ team, dill hole.

There's a difference. Your lack of logic is whack. Do I think BB is the better QB for NE than Brady is? Nope. BB better than Manning in Indy?Nope. Never said that. Now, drop your pants, suck your thumb and walk down Main St. Your lack of working logic is astonishing.

[ILLSTILL Profile]

Something weird is wrong with this thread.

[gutofsteel Profile]

There were a couple games this year, at least one done by Phil Simms, where they COULDN'T WAIT to talk about Ben holding the ball and the issues that caused. And almost every single replay proved their contention flat out wrong.

Several times Phil Simms jumped all over this, but give him credit after reviewing the replay for saying "well, I guess I was wrong". He talked about guys being open, been then astutely observed on replay that they were, in fact, still in their route and not looking for the ball. It was almost comical it happened so much. Simms clearly came in with what he perceived as flaw that he was going to harp on only to find out his perception was almost completely wrong.

Ben holds the ball because he needs to, not because he wants to. And at other times receivers did get open Ben had no pocket to step up into or no throwing lane due to the play of the OL. Ben is not a guy who shy away from throwing the ball into tight spots. Every QB takes sacks and misses open receivers. Ben took maybe another 8-10 sacks than the average guy for holding the ball, but that's because he has that ability. The option, most of the time, would have been to throw it away. Probably 75-80% of the sacks really are on the OL and WR's and combinations thereof, some of which can be attributed to playcalling.

[steelcitymetal Profile]

Ben holds the ball because he needs to, not because he wants to.

lol, you can say that again

when the pocket breaks down (also known as "when the ball is snapped"), there are four options:
-a- throw the ball away
-b- force a risky throw to receiver
-c- take a sack
-d- move your ass

since choices A and C do not provide positive outcomes and choice B will often times produce those highly-criticizeable interceptions, ben has learned that option D is best.

[lloydrules Profile]

What McLoopie didn't grasp the first time around, was that I never said BB was better than Manning or Brady; I SAID we would not have won the SB with either of those guys, who have demonstrated that, when pressured, they are not the same QB. Face it. With this PGH team, pressure is something that is going to happen. BB has a chance of getting away from the pressure and making plays. Recall what happened to Brady in the SB vs. the Giants? Pressure wrecked him. What happened to Manning in 2005 play offs vs. Pgh? Pressure wrecked him.

BB sometime creates pressure by holding the ball, but that's because he is waiting for someone to get open and he buys times with his amazing scrambling ability. Manning or Brady don't have that ability, period. In theirs systems and teams they may be better than BB. But in Pgh, this team needs BB's abilities that neither Brady nor Manning have.

I can't think of a SB winner that had an OL as weak as ours. Did any of the following SB winners have an OL as bad as Pgh's 2008?

2007 season NY? no.
2006 Colts? No.
2005 Steelers? No way.
2004 Pats? No.
2003 Pats? No.
2002 Bucs? No.
2001 Pats? No.
2000 Ravens? No.
1999 Rams? No.
1998 Broncos? No.
1997 Broncos? No.
1996 Pack? No.
1995 Cowboys? No.
1994 9ers? No.
1993 Cowboys? No.
1992....well, you get the point.

The Giants, 9ers, Bears, etc. of the 80s all had much better OLs as well.

Not only was our OL weak at pass protection, but they gave us no prayer for a rushing attack vs. decent teams as well. We had a few games with some rushing production, but bottom line, vs. good teams, our rushing game was squashed like a grape, including in the SB and post season.

Face it: Any other QB in the league right now and Pgh does not win a ring this year.

Pay homage to BB.