View topic - New Article: Why the Stillers Defense is Good, but not Great…

[trenches Profile]

Why the Stillers Defense is Good, but not Great… has been posted by Guest at Stillers.com.

[No l Gravity l Profile]

Lack of conditioning is why they're allowing late drives (actually a late drive)? Hmm...how bout lack of offensive productivity that keeps the D on the field? Hell how many times has Harrison and Polamalu bailed out or offense? Its sad when most of our points come from Ben taking advantage of short field position. To tell you the truth, this is the best Steeler defense I've ever seen in the past 15 years.

[El Nino Profile]

Lack of conditioning is why they're allowing late drives (actually a late drive)? Hmm...how bout lack of offensive productivity that keeps the D on the field? Hell how many times has Harrison and Polamalu bailed out or offense? Its sad when most of our points come from Ben taking advantage of short field position. To tell you the truth, this is the best Steeler defense I've ever seen in the past 15 years.

my thoughts exactly. best defensive unit we've had in a long ass time, and they give our O tons of chances to stay in games we would have been blown out in had our defense been average (eagles/giants games come to mind)

it's what's killin me this season. our defense is super bowl caliber, no freaking question about it. if our offense even halfway gets their shit together, we may get another ring. now if that does happen or not is up to them. hopefully the performance vs SD is the start of a turn around, they played good in my opinion. minus even a few of those bullshit calls from the refs, we run away with that game.

I don't think some of these are fair to put on the defense:
2008 (3 times in 10 games)

10/26/2008 NY Giants Loss - 21-14

1. 4Q – Game tied, allowed 53 yard touchdown drive with 6:44 to play
We go -4 in the turnover battle against the defending superbowl champs, and only lose by 7 pts, with 2 opportunities for ben to bring us back in the game. Why were we still in striking range despite our offense's mistakes? Our defense.

11/9/2008 Indianapolis Loss - 24-20
1. 2Q – Winning 17-7, allowed 30 yard touchdown drive with 1:24 to play
2. 4Q – Winning 21-17, allowed 32 yard touchdown drive with 4:44 to play
1. Roethlisberger throws an INT that puts Indy in scoring position to start their drive
2. Roethlisberger throws another INT that puts Indy in scoring position to start their drive

11/16/2008 San Diego Win - 11-10
1. 4Q – Winning 8-7, allowed 78 yard touchdown drive with 14:15 to play that took 7:34. The offense bailed them out by driving for a winning field goal.

He means a field goal drive I'm sure? Not to mention the key stops we made on defense that if we haven't made, we probably lose this game. The safety of course, 2 points right there. And when SD was in scoring position, Harrison's interception sets up a field goal before the half. This is at the very least a 6 point shift here considering the chargers were in easy field goal range when this turnover happened. Defense played a hell of a game. Our offense put them in bad spots and they still only gave up 10 pts (should be 3 or 6 factoring the phantom pass interference call).

[Hagerstown Steelman Profile]

I agree some of the late drives are a disheartening. However, had our offense done its job in these games in 2008 we could be 9-1 or 10-0. The only game we were grossly out played was Philly but even that we were in until the end.

In 2007 that was another story as we had the ball run down our throats in several of those games. Maybe it was the Smith injury (I think this was huge). Maybe it was the linebackers were still not the beasts that they are today (Harrison, Woodley, Timmons).

Either way if they do stop the occassional late drive (we also seem to give up some first drives as well) we would be an incredible defense. Also, only giving up 10 points to the 2nd highest rated passer, with tall receivers, with two of our top CB's out is impressive.

What other team in the league has had to deal with the number of injuries on both sides of the ball as the Steelers? We can always find fault but is great as always to be a Steeler fan.

Keep the good articles coming Steeler Nation

[Homer J Profile]

Laughable.

Out of condition? Who? Silverback? Polamalu? Woodley? Smith? (Okay, maybe the Big Snack, but that's always been a given.) I don't consider it out of condition when guys break their arm and have to be replaced in the game, or when shoulders pop. They are in shape and they kick ass on a weekly basis.

Giants loss 21-14
1. 4Q – Game tied, allowed 53 yard touchdown drive with 6:44 to play
We go -4 in the turnover battle against the defending superbowl champs, and only lose by 7 pts, with 2 opportunities for ben to bring us back in the game. Why were we still in striking range despite our offense's mistakes? Our defense.

11/9/2008 Indianapolis Loss - 24-20
1. 2Q – Winning 17-7, allowed 30 yard touchdown drive with 1:24 to play
2. 4Q – Winning 21-17, allowed 32 yard touchdown drive with 4:44 to play
1. Roethlisberger throws an INT that puts Indy in scoring position to start their drive
2. Roethlisberger throws another INT that puts Indy in scoring position to start their drive

You actually blame the defense for those two touchdown drives of less than 35 yards??? WTF?
It was Roethlisberger who tossed the ball away twice deep in Steeler territory.

Against San Diego, the defense scored 9 points (7 were mistakenly stolen), while giving up only 10 (of which 7 were thanks to a bullshit, phantom interference penalty). Had the refs not either fucked up royally or tried to throw the game, the Steeler defense would have outscored the San Diego offense.

Jesus H. Christ in shoulderpads, buddy, they're not only number one in overall defense, they're number one in rushing defense, and they're number one in passing defense. They're number one in sacks. They've given up only 150 points in ten games, including those courtesy of an inept offense and a slipup or two on special teams.

This is the best fucking defense since the Steel Curtain. In spite of injuries that have depleted the secondary. In spite of Aaron Smith playing his heart out - often unable to practice - because of an ongoing family situation that breaks everyone's heart. In spite of an offense that can't convert on third and short and cannot possess the football. The Steeler D earns their number one ranking on the field.....they don't spend the game sitting on the bench watching the Bus eat up the clock any more. Those days, sadly, are long gone, pal.

This Steeler defense is not just good. They are great. And the statistics, which sometimes can be misleading, are right on the money on this one. They're number one. They're great. No matter what lame arguments you try to muster.

[Steve0212 Profile]

I think you guys are missing the point of the article I wrote. I am saying take out all the other factors. I do not care about turn overs, time of possession, etc. I am telling the D to suck it up, rise to the occasion and make the same plays they made in the first three quarters. I do agree the offense needs to step it up in a big way and if they do, I like our Super Bowl chances. However, the D needs to not take a step backwards in the fourth quarter - regardless of the circumstances.

You actually blame the defense for those two touchdown drives of less than 35 yards??? WTF?
It was Roethlisberger who tossed the ball away twice deep in Steeler territory.

Why does a turn over prevent the D from causing a three and out? In fact, let's just not put the D on the field since there is no possible way they could have held the colts to a FG!

Take the three regular season games from last year. If the D steps up and we win those games, we would have finished 13-3, tied with Ind for the #2 seed (not sure of tie breakers) and then who knows what would have happened since we would not have had to play Jacksonville.

Also, check out the TOP for seven games I listed. The Stillers won TOP on 5 of 7 of them, so that excuse is out.

Code: Select all

10/26/2008        NY Giants                  L   25:36      34:24
11/9/2008         Indianapolis               W   34:05      25:55   
11/16/2008        San Diego                  W   36:31      23:29   
10/21/2007        Denver                     W   31:35      28:25
11/18/2007        NY Jets                    W   35:52      29:11 (extra OT Time)
12/16/2007        Jacksonville               L   22:21      37:39
1/5/2007          Jacksonville (Playoffs)    W   32:59      27:01

[Homer J Profile]

Not missing the point, at all, Steve.

First of all, last year was last year. Smith was out. The defense couldn't stop the run. And I'm not talking about last year. This year's defense is far superior to last year's. I hope we agree on that.

Second of all, TOP is an important statistic, but only when used in conjunction with other stats. We've seen games this year with many, many exchanges of punts and lots of three-and-outs, or series with only one first down. So the defense can do its job magnificently, and yet TOP can be relatively even. Both teams keep going three and out.

This team is also number one in fewest yards allowed per play....less than four yards per play.

Of course it would have been nice to have stopped Indy on those two short touchdown drives. But that didn't happen. Even so, those were points off turnovers by a quarterback who threw six fourth quarter picks in three weeks. The points were scored against the defense, I admit. But it was the offense that set the table.

Ben keeps throwing fourth quarter incompletions and picks, and you blame the defense for those times the opposition scores on a short field.

The defense is playing well enough to be 10-0. They played well enough to beat Philly, the Giants, and the Colts. The offense is playing poorly enough to be 4-6 or 5-5. Lack of scoring, inability to establish field position (against the Eagles), and costly turnovers have kept the pressure on the defense.

[stillgrill Profile]

This is a very good defense, no doubt. BUT - there is no questioning that Lebeau calls off the dogs at the end of a game. No fire-blitzing, no CB blitzes, just bland rushing 3-4 guys who are gassed by that time. This team won the Indy playoff gm because they weren't afraid to send Porter & other LB's at crucial times. They sit back way too much when they're tied or slightly ahead.

[Steve0212 Profile]

I will absolutely agree this year's defense is FAR superior to last year's unit and I agree the D is playing well enough to win the Super Bowl if they get some help from the offense. My point is that it would be great if the D could rise up and win it despite the offense like the 2000 Ravens did. As bad as our offense is, the Raven's offense in their Super Bowl year was worse than ours is now.

And don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree that Ben made major mistakes that cost us the Indy game. However, I would have liked to see the D bail him out like he bailed them out with the FG drive against San Diego to close the game.

Let's look at that SD game. SD got 213 yards - which is excellent D. The problem is that 36% of those yards (78) came on the one drive of the 4Q. The first three quarters, we allowed 135 yards vs. 78 yards on 1 drive of the 4Q. Further, this had nothing to do with a short field, turn over, TOP, anything. SD started on at their own 18.

To win the Super Bowl, we need one of two things to happen - the O pick it up, or the D pick it up. With Arians as O Coordinator, I think it is more likely the D can pick it up to an even higher level.

[Homer J Profile]

I agree with everything you just said.


We simply disagree on whether this D is good or great...and that's as much semantics as anything.

Considering the state of affairs in the secondary (BMac out, Townshend out, Clark has been out), it is amazing that a team that doesn't rely on its front four (cause it doesn't have one) has performed with such excellence.

When those guys get back, I think we'll see a little more gambling and we'll see them pick it up in the fourth quarter.

Fernando Bryant and Tyrone Carter have been doing their best, and have actually performed at a higher level than I would have expected. But the hope here is that the secondary gets healthy for the stretch run. That's what happened during the Super Bowl year. And I absolutely agree with you that if this team is going anywhere, it'll be on the backs of the defense. You're absolutely right that Arians will make sure of that.

[DirtDawson Profile]

I'm so sick of hearing this crap.



if there's one unit that deserves the LEAST amount of criticism, it's the defense.



Some of steelers fans have been completely SPOILED by how good this defense has been. The defense is the ONLY REASON why the team has been winning.


Have you FORGOTTEN that we're playing the TOUGHEST SCHEDULE IN A DECADE??!??!



Do you even realize how many teams wish they had a defense that holds a candle to the Steelers? Have you seen how many times they've held their ground against some of the est offenses in the league?

How many other defenses in the league have held every single rushing opponent to under 100 yards? NONE.



"They didn't step up when it mattered most"


that's the stupidest thing i've heard. Do you realize how much the defense haas been abused by the shitty offensive schemes causing numerous turnovers and bad field position throughout games?


yet you're going to blame the defense for not stepping up every time the offense coughed up the ball in UNCOUNTABLE 3-and-outs.




How the hell is this person allowed to write an article on this website that gets posted? This is utter garbage.


Complaining about the steelers defense is like the rich kid complaining he didn't get the right colored Porsche on his birthday.

[StillMill Profile]

I'm so sick of hearing this crap.



if there's one unit that deserves the LEAST amount of criticism, it's the defense.



Some of steelers fans have been completely SPOILED by how good this defense has been. The defense is the ONLY REASON why the team has been winning.


Have you FORGOTTEN that we're playing the TOUGHEST SCHEDULE IN A DECADE??!??!



Do you even realize how many teams wish they had a defense that holds a candle to the Steelers? Have you seen how many times they've held their ground against some of the est offenses in the league?

How many other defenses in the league have held every single rushing opponent to under 100 yards? NONE.



"They didn't step up when it mattered most"


that's the stupidest thing i've heard. Do you realize how much the defense haas been abused by the shitty offensive schemes causing numerous turnovers and bad field position throughout games?


yet you're going to blame the defense for not stepping up every time the offense coughed up the ball in UNCOUNTABLE 3-and-outs.




How the hell is this person allowed to write an article on this website that gets posted? This is utter garbage.


Complaining about the steelers defense is like the rich kid complaining he didn't get the right colored Porsche on his birthday.

First off, I myself published this superb guest article. The premise was DEAD ON and superb.

As Jonsie said, just becaues Ben commits a turnover, does NOT mean the defense has to wallow and GIVE UP an IMMEDIATE TD with French-like passion and defense. It'd be nice to see some balls, and some gusto, and a GOAL LINE stand. Stats mean nothing to me; effectiveness is crunch time is what matters.

One other thing -- our defense has been fortuitous in the plethora of injuries to KEY OFFENSIVE STARS that have either been HOBBLED when we've faced them, or sitting on the BENCH. So, fuk that bullshit about "toughest schedule". This "toughest schedule" includes the 2007 PATRIOTS, with a HEALTHY Tom Brady. Newsflash -- Brady is GONE for the year. Not that The Castle hasn't filled in admirably, but he ain't no Brady.

This defense is good. But it has sagged and faltered in the 4th QUARTER, where games are WON OR LOST. Additionally, it could be better if Timmons were on the field far more often. One man is responsible for that NOT occuring, and his name is DikHead LeBeau.

[Field General Ben Profile]

http://www.nfl.com/stats/team

I see three Steelers logos underneath defense.

[Jeemie Profile]

I think you guys are missing the point of the article I wrote. I am saying take out all the other factors. I do not care about turn overs, time of possession, etc. I am telling the D to suck it up, rise to the occasion and make the same plays they made in the first three quarters. I do agree the offense needs to step it up in a big way and if they do, I like our Super Bowl chances. However, the D needs to not take a step backwards in the fourth quarter - regardless of the circumstances.

You actually blame the defense for those two touchdown drives of less than 35 yards??? WTF?
It was Roethlisberger who tossed the ball away twice deep in Steeler territory.

Why does a turn over prevent the D from causing a three and out? In fact, let's just not put the D on the field since there is no possible way they could have held the colts to a FG!

Take the three regular season games from last year. If the D steps up and we win those games, we would have finished 13-3, tied with Ind for the #2 seed (not sure of tie breakers) and then who knows what would have happened since we would not have had to play Jacksonville.

Also, check out the TOP for seven games I listed. The Stillers won TOP on 5 of 7 of them, so that excuse is out.

Code: Select all

10/26/2008        NY Giants                  L   25:36      34:24
11/9/2008         Indianapolis               W   34:05      25:55   
11/16/2008        San Diego                  W   36:31      23:29   
10/21/2007        Denver                     W   31:35      28:25
11/18/2007        NY Jets                    W   35:52      29:11 (extra OT Time)
12/16/2007        Jacksonville               L   22:21      37:39
1/5/2007          Jacksonville (Playoffs)    W   32:59      27:01

This year's defense is a cut above last year's defense, so it's not really fair to throw them into the mix.

Last year's defense lost many of those games with a key player injured (Aaron Smith).

And they lost the playoff game on a bogus play where four players were blatantly held.

I would agree they are not super-spectacular great like the '85 Bears or the '00 Ravens...but they are pretty damn good!

As for some of the drives, they pay the other team to play too, ya know!

[gutofsteel Profile]

LeBeau's philosophy has changed since he began his second stint with PIT. The blitzburgh days really are long gone. LeBeau plays very safe behind the occasional 5-man rush. If you go back to those days, they attacked but occasionally were susceptible to the big play. This defense rarely gives up the big play, but they don't make a lot either because the approach is to keep things in front of you. They still blitz a fair amount, but with LeBeau it is all about conceding the short play and making teams drive the field. This is why they are not particularly good with a short field. It's why teams like the Patriots consistently abuse them because the Pats are built to attack what LeBeau gives up. Lost in the IND and NYG games is that, despite playing a solid game defensively, they didn't make a single play to help the cause, either. And, I'm sorry, but giving up two touchdowns from 30+ is hardly the mark of a championship caliber defense. They've got to hold IND to a FG on at least one of those. It's a defense that will keep you in any game but will not win games, SD being a rare exception. That 2000 BAL defense was phenomenal - I think they single-handedly outscored their opponents in the SB run. That 2000 BAL defense was not as solid or fundamentally sound as this defense, but they forced a ton of turnovers which makes them superior.

The other thing is the defense is not particularly good at forcing turnovers. Harrison or Woodley will jar the occasional fumble, but outside of Troy making a number of plays this year (he went over two years without a pick) the secondary rarely, and I mean RARELY, hawks the ball.

It's an outstanding defense. But when they get softer late in the half or the game (as most defenses do) or have a short field, they are more average. It's a difficult defense to drive the field on because, eventually, the offense doesn't make the plays. But with a short field or against that soft prevent shell, that advantage is negated.

It's a championship caliber defense. The problem with this team is OL and offensive playcalling. Cutting out all the stupid mistakes on offense will go a long way.

[dirtydave61 Profile]

Obviously, the Stillers' defense is superb this year, and I can't believe all this griping.

This year's D's worst enemy is the offense. There's been a number of times when I've felt they'd be better off handing the ball off 3 plays in a row, running the play clock down and punting to be able to play the field position games and kick field goals to win.

Now, I realize that's an absurd comment, but I've actually felt like that in the Giants and Colts games. The offense turned it over 4 times to the Giants' 0 and 3 times to the Colts' 0. Simply put, you can't win games when you turn the ball over.

As for this defense not stepping up and making plays, it has. Just look at some games.

Against the Chargers, Harrison sacked the QB, stripped the ball and tackled the guy who recovered the fumble in the end zone for a safety. Those 2 points added up to a win in the end and put the Steelers in control for most of the game. The D also made key plays on the Troy and Harrision INTs -- Troy's was an absolutely unbelievable play that frustrated Rivers early and led to a bad game, which was evidenced in the Harrison pick, which was the result of a terrible throw.

Against Baltimore, Harrison sacked Flacco and forced the fumble Woodley scooped up and took to the end zone. Huge play.

Against Cincinnati, Fitzpatrick was sacked 7 times and fumbled once. The score doesn't indicated it, but this game was close through the middle of the 3Q until the offense finally clicked. The defense played big all day.

All other wins this season have come with consistent play and winning the turnover ratio. The Steelers are leading the league in sacks. Aren't those enough big plays for all you haters?

Also, look at things from the other angle - the "sometimes the best defense is a good offense" angle. There have been many games when the defense has put the offense in position to make plays and it has stumbled, such as against Philadelphia, when McNabb was hurt, Kolb came in and was picked. The offense did nothing with the opportunity.

And, of course, the offense has killed the defense all year.

Against the Jags, Roethlisberger's opening pick 6 to Mathis put the team (and defense down) early.

Against the Redskins, the D played amazing (7 sacks, first team to pick Campbell all year) despite being put in bad position right at the start of the game -- an opening onside kick attempt and a bad offensive series -- that led to 2 field goals.

Against the Colts, Roethlisberger's interceptions at the end of each half directly resulted in points, and inevitably, the loss.

As I said in another topic, it's disgusting how spoiled so many Steelers fans are with a perennial top 10 defense, and this year's is exceptional.

I mean, come on, what do you want? I don't think a sack or INT is possible on every single play.

[DirtDawson Profile]

First off, I myself published this superb guest article. The premise was DEAD ON and superb.

As Jonsie said, just becaues Ben commits a turnover, does NOT mean the defense has to wallow and GIVE UP an IMMEDIATE TD with French-like passion and defense. It'd be nice to see some balls, and some gusto, and a GOAL LINE stand. Stats mean nothing to me; effectiveness is crunch time is what matters.

One other thing -- our defense has been fortuitous in the plethora of injuries to KEY OFFENSIVE STARS that have either been HOBBLED when we've faced them, or sitting on the BENCH. So, fuk that bullshit about "toughest schedule". This "toughest schedule" includes the 2007 PATRIOTS, with a HEALTHY Tom Brady. Newsflash -- Brady is GONE for the year. Not that The Castle hasn't filled in admirably, but he ain't no Brady.

This defense is good. But it has sagged and faltered in the 4th QUARTER, where games are WON OR LOST. Additionally, it could be better if Timmons were on the field far more often. One man is responsible for that NOT occuring, and his name is DikHead LeBeau.

I can't disagree with everything that's been said. But I still think it's kind of ironic to be complaining about the team's biggest strength, compared to everything else that's been going on.

Every game I watch i find myself, like you, cussing my head off at Bruce Arians and his play calling.



The defense is the one aspect that's been keeping this team together, and probably the only reason why they still have a winning record.

And yes, you bring up a good point about the injuries they've been fortunate to play againts, like Westbrook, etc. But they've also performed well against some very good offensive units, like the Giant's running game, Philly's passing game, and the leading rusher in the NFL at the time, Portis.


I think it's accurate to say the defense has improved from last year, where there were serious issues towards the end of the year.

I just find it hard to really complain about the defense, when they're the biggest strength on the team. I'm just a bit more appreciative of the defense. Could you imagine how bad the team would be if the defense was playing at the same level as our offense????

[thesteelhammer Profile]

I think it is too early to judge this defense.
Greatness (or lack of it) shouldn't be judged until we see what they do in the play offs.

[brewster Profile]

Did you take into account Ben's interceptions? The Steelers offense giving teams short fields? This Steelers defense is outstanding! They held their own in Philadelphia or the score would have been much worse. They've held their own all year against a very tough schedule, the toughest schedule in the league, and are still ranked #1 in week 12. Come on, give credit where credit is due.

[steelwest Profile]

The defense is terrific this year. Has anyone taken into account the injuries to two of our top three corners and the other injuries (like Clark) we have suffered? They picked Fernando off the street last week and he had to play against San Diego. How we stop anyone with him, I have no idea. Carter cannot cover anyone either and does not have the speed to close effectively for tackles -- see the Jacksonville game from last year. Let's be happy with what we have and not dwell on the few moments when the other team scored.

The Steelers are one offensive line away from being right there. Of course, there seems to be no improvement on the offensive line. We are the only play-off caliber team that you wonder on every third down if we can get a pass off, much less complete it.