View topic - New Article: Stillers-Giants Postgame Analysis and Grades

[StillDodger Profile]

Because your're a dumbass, let me summarize all of this:

2. the Shotgun POOCH PUNT could have been executed REGARDLESS of whether NY was "expecting" it. On 4th down, Ben COULD, OBVIOUSLY, be passing the ball. NY's defense would have had to respect Ben as a QB. Ben could have quick-punted and knocked a rather ordinary 30-yard punt that might very well have been NOT fielded and thus downed by the coverage guys. MUCH BETTER, I'd say, than a guy who has NEVER snapped a football in a game, snapping to a HOBBLED PUNTER that could not move due to a hamstring injury, which resulted in a 2-pt. safety plus the ensuing punt.

From your own 5 yard line? With the same offensive line that almost got Ben killed??

Everybody in the stadium would have known what the play was going to be. And why. The Giants would have laid down the hammer on such a play.

If the backup long-snapper was addressed properly to begin with, this situation would have never come forth. There should have been a viable backup long snapper. Period. End of story.

Do you ever remember a situation in any football game, HS, college, or pro, where the team was without a viable long snapper?? I certainly don't.

I normally agree with your assessments, but you're way off here.

[StillMill Profile]

From your own 5 yard line? With the same offensive line that almost got Ben killed??

A quick pooch punt can be executed in HALF the time that a 5-step drop & throw takes. Even less, actually. It's an immediate 1-step punt...not SCANNING the field looking for an open recv'r.

Everybody in the stadium would have known what the play was going to be. And why. The Giants would have laid down the hammer on such a play.

Uh, no, they would not have. A desperate team, wanting to win the game, COULD go for it on 4th down there. Like a spread offense, the defense MUST RESPECT the offensive alignment. They could not have rushed 9 players. They could they have dropped a safety 35 yards deep, but that would expose them to a pass play as Ben could audible and pass the ball (or Tomlin could have simply gone for it and ordered a pass play). 4th & 22 is a bit much to gain, so I'd have opted for the pooch punt rather than:

a. using guy who has NEVER, EVER snapped the ball in any form or distance in ANY NCAA or NFL game

AND

b. having a slow-footed, non-athletic guy attempt to catch what would likely be an erratic snap, with an obviously painful hamstring severely limiting his movement, and then, if he did manage to field the snap, to get off a good boot with, AGAIN, an obviously painful hamstring.

It's every bit as stupid as having Ben, were he to suffer a severe injury, be replaced on a 2-point conversion by Trai Essex, who then attempts a pass to Dallas Baker, who had just torn his ACL earlier in the game and was visibly limping around in pain. The Harrison to Berger combo, given their associated inexperience and injury, was fraught with disaster and was THE WORST possible choice among many that could have been chosen.

[Jeemie Profile]

From your own 5 yard line? With the same offensive line that almost got Ben killed??

A quick pooch punt can be executed in HALF the time that a 5-step drop & throw takes. Even less, actually. It's an immediate 1-step punt...not SCANNING the field looking for an open recv'r.

Everybody in the stadium would have known what the play was going to be. And why. The Giants would have laid down the hammer on such a play.

Uh, no, they would not have. A desperate team, wanting to win the game, COULD go for it on 4th down there. Like a spread offense, the defense MUST RESPECT the offensive alignment. They could not have rushed 9 players. They could they have dropped a safety 35 yards deep, but that would expose them to a pass play as Ben could audible and pass the ball (or Tomlin could have simply gone for it and ordered a pass play). 4th & 22 is a bit much to gain, so I'd have opted for the pooch punt rather than:

a. using guy who has NEVER, EVER snapped the ball in any form or distance in ANY NCAA or NFL game

AND

b. having a slow-footed, non-athletic guy attempt to catch what would likely be an erratic snap, with an obviously painful hamstring severely limiting his movement, and then, if he did manage to field the snap, to get off a good boot with, AGAIN, an obviously painful hamstring.

It's every bit as stupid as having Ben, were he to suffer a severe injury, be replaced on a 2-point conversion by Trai Essex, who then attempts a pass to Dallas Baker, who had just torn his ACL earlier in the game and was visibly limping around in pain. The Harrison to Berger combo, given their associated inexperience and injury, was fraught with disaster and was THE WORST possible choice among many that could have been chosen.

You have not addressed the fact that a pooch punt puts the Giants in pretty much EXACTLY the same FP they got after the safety, so the likely result is the Giants are up 19-14 or maybe 15-14 at BEST.

And our offense was going to have a tough time GETTING into FG position, let along being confident in EXECUTING one.

So the likely result of your "alternative" is EXACTLY the same as what happened.

In the grand scheme of things, the safety was irrelevant.

[StillMill Profile]

You have not addressed the fact that a pooch punt puts the Giants in pretty much EXACTLY the same FP they got after the safety, so the likely result is the Giants are up 19-14 or maybe 15-14 at BEST.

And our offense was going to have a tough time GETTING into FG position, let along being confident in EXECUTING one.

So the likely result of your "alternative" is EXACTLY the same as what happened.

In the grand scheme of things, the safety was irrelevant.

Sorry, Creamster. It was hardly irrelevant. To a computer, it would be irrelevant. But the game isn't played on a computer. The pucker factor and pressure is FAR less playing in a TIED game, rather than being BEHIND. The safety gave the Giants the TIE and a calming relief going into that drive.

Furthermore, a turnover could have happened on a pooch punt. Why? With the starting defense on the field, you have numerous starters out there who rarely, or NEVER, play on the punt-return team. A Giant could have run back (to block), and the punted ball could have hit him off the bounce,etc. A clever Steeler could have shoved a Giant into a bouncing football. A Giant not used to fielding punts could have muffed it. Any number of Leon-Lett style miscues could have occurred.

To summarily dismiss all of this with a sweep of the hand and claim the safety is "irrelevant" is the height of absurdity.

[Mrsteve Profile]

If ben had punted the ball out of bounds at the 25, what do you thinking the Special Teams and Coaching Grades would have been?

I look at calls in the context of how they were made, not how they were executed.

For example, I'm stilling trying to figure out why we threw a three-yard crossing pattern on 4th and 5. That's on Arians.

I don't blame Arians for the fact that Ben was flinging the ball around like a drunken Brett Favre however.

I think most of the teams that have backup long-snappers have them by luck more than planning. So, I'm not sure I blame Tomlin for the Harrison debacle. Especially considering that Harrison has apparently long-snapped in his life. And to be honest, you don't rocket a snap like that unless you actually know the technique.

I do blame Tomline for using Berger on the free kick and not Reed though. Distance was what mattered more at that point, not hang time.

[Jeemie Profile]

You have not addressed the fact that a pooch punt puts the Giants in pretty much EXACTLY the same FP they got after the safety, so the likely result is the Giants are up 19-14 or maybe 15-14 at BEST.

And our offense was going to have a tough time GETTING into FG position, let along being confident in EXECUTING one.

So the likely result of your "alternative" is EXACTLY the same as what happened.

In the grand scheme of things, the safety was irrelevant.

Sorry, Creamster. It was hardly irrelevant. To a computer, it would be irrelevant. But the game isn't played on a computer. The pucker factor and pressure is FAR less playing in a TIED game, rather than being BEHIND. The safety gave the Giants the TIE and a calming relief going into that drive.

Furthermore, a turnover could have happened on a pooch punt. Why? With the starting defense on the field, you have numerous starters out there who rarely, or NEVER, play on the punt-return team. A Giant could have run back (to block), and the punted ball could have hit him off the bounce,etc. A clever Steeler could have shoved a Giant into a bouncing football. A Giant not used to fielding punts could have muffed it. Any number of Leon-Lett style miscues could have occurred.

To summarily dismiss all of this with a sweep of the hand and claim the safety is "irrelevant" is the height of absurdity.

Oh...silly me.

I thought we were going to have a discussion on LIKELY outcomes, not an exercise in wishful thinking.