View topic - Pgh loses SB with __ANY__ other QB other than Ben

[gutofsteel Profile]

Yeah, several analysts said PIT may have had the worst OL ever to win a SB. Glad they're finally paying attention, we've only known that for, oh, about forever. I can't remember when pass protection has ever been better than mediocre (realize Tommy Maddox, he of the quick release and afraid of getting hit, was sacked about 1 every 14 times he dropped back vs 1 of 11 for Ben), and the last few years the run blocking has slipped as well.

That's right, folks. When Maddox had Plax and Ward in his prime and a better OL he was sacked 73 times over 956 attempts in some 30 games. And no one ever accused Maddox of holding the ball.

[ILLSTILL Profile]

While it's obvious my opinion of Ben differs from most of yours, I will say there's a very strong likelihood that not only was that the easily the worst o-line to get into the Super Bowl, but maybe even in the playoffs in general.

[ILLSTILL Profile]

That's right, folks. When Maddox had Plax and Ward in his prime and a better OL he was sacked 73 times over 956 attempts in some 30 games. And no one ever accused Maddox of holding the ball.

Maddox was immobile. Everyone knows that. His passes usually came out with the first movement of his arm, unlike Ben, who very rarely releases on the first pump. Or the second. Ben seems to think he can use his God powers to run out of the pocket 100% of the time it seems, because he seems to never give off a quick pass. Thus, sometimes he is immediately sacked. It's quite difficult to tacke Ben once he's on the move. But if two guys collide into him while he's in the pocket, the guy is going down.

Part of the blame goes to Arians, yes. It requires certain gameplans.

But remember the way the Jets drowned the Titans in their first loss this year? I could never ever see Ben successfully working in that system.

So to say that he is the only qb who would work in this situation is an intangible. Honestly, I think there are a few qb's who could EASILY dispute your ridiculous "our receivers don't get open quickly" theory. After all, I will once again remind you of the Redskins game.

[gutofsteel Profile]

So to say that he is the only qb who would work in this situation is an intangible. Honestly, I think there are a few qb's who could EASILY dispute your ridiculous "our receivers don't get open quickly" theory. After all, I will once again remind you of the Redskins game.

Anecdotal evidence of one game - half a game at that - proves nothing. And if I remember correctly, Leftwich was sacked twice in that game. Plus, after he hooked up on the bomb to Nate that caught everyone off guard the game was effectively over.

You talk about Ben pumping the ball, he does that because the guy is covered. If you've watched him enough you know he has no fear of throwing the ball into a tight window.

What Maddox shows is how bad the pass protection has been because, with Plax and Ward in their prime and a better OL he was sacked nearly as frequently as Ben. That's not about the receivers, that's about how quickly protection breaks down.

Like I said, several analysts tried in multiple games to make the exact point you are trying to make and the replays proved them wrong nearly every time.

[SteelerPower Profile]

Big Ben is the man. He WILL go to the Hall of Fame

[ILLSTILL Profile]

Well, allow me to rephrase regarding Maddox.

Unless your O line is in the top 5 in pass pro, you're gonna have some breakdowns.

The reason Maddox would get sacked is he is one of the worst qbs at avoiding and taking pressure.

As far as the argument regarding the announcers questioning Ben's ability, I disagree. I heard alot of them defending him. I specifically remember this certain anecdote. (Verbatim)

"A lot of Steeler faithful kind of question Ben's ability and claim he might hold on to the ball. They say he doesn't make plays. Well let me tell ya...he does."

When I heard that, I said to myself "I'm done with announcers opinions of BR7. The only people's opinoins that matter are that of stillers.com "

I mean, like I said before, I saw Heath open quite a few times and Ben didn't throw it. What you said about his throwing into a tight window is EXACTLY what I believe. He doesn't want to throw it there anymore. He oftentimes only threw it to the wide open receiver (who often dropped it ). Such was the reason why the offense looked so dismal.

Again, I'm not Ben-bashing by any means, I just think there were a few games this year where you have to wonder why he still had the ball in his hand.

Maybe the concussion got him back to the right mind?

[Steel Holiday Profile]

Big Ben is the man. He WILL go to the Hall of Fame

Seasons like he just completed have to increase his chances. Ben walks the line in every tilt. People will say what must be said about the play calling, but Pittsburgh was in every game. I think the toughest game this last year was Philli because they did such a good job of giving the Steelers no way to threaten them defensively. Ben was a complete sitting duck and no matter how small the deficit in that contest, we were never in winning position.

Ben did a great job of managing his ability to score when it counted in games Pittsburgh won. Sometimes that was early and often. Sometimes that was on the last drive. Fact is that when the chips were on the table nobody got more experience than #7. At Tennessee, Ben cooked the teams goose by turning over the momentum to a hungry team looking to prove something. That could be the only blemish on otherwise spectacular execution of keeping his team in the game till final countdown. Lets let that toughest schedule in the NFL thing wreally sink in .

When you package the ability to perform under pressure with Roethlisberger's pocket presence then drives like SBXLIII's are possible. Nobody is going to confuse the offensive line of the Steelers with that of the Giants, but the guy who is behind that line has the talent necessary to put up enough points when it counts to win games and Super Bowls. Big Ben is a great quarterback.

[gutofsteel Profile]

I mean, like I said before, I saw Heath open quite a few times and Ben didn't throw it. What you said about his throwing into a tight window is EXACTLY what I believe. He doesn't want to throw it there anymore. He oftentimes only threw it to the wide open receiver (who often dropped it ). Such was the reason why the offense looked so dismal.

Again, I'm not Ben-bashing by any means, I just think there were a few games this year where you have to wonder why he still had the ball in his hand.

Maybe the concussion got him back to the right mind?

And I think sometimes the receiver is not looking for the ball or that the progression is not there yet. I keep hearing about Ben missing open receivers and it seems reasonable, but I've rarely seen evidence on replay.

Like I said, Phil Simms worked two games last year where he kept trying to make that point, but he was man enough to admit he was wrong.

And your contention that Ben doesn't want to throw into a tight window anymore is ridiculous. Or maybe you missed that last drive in the SB where he threaded the needle at least three times on that drive alone? That last throw, which Jaworksi raved about how few QB's would even attempt it, didn't even have to be made as they were easily in tying FG range, plus he had another down to try if he just wanted to throw it away. No way can you look at that pass when the stakes could not be higher and say Ben has any fear of making a tough throw. He does that a lot, always has and always will. You can't just look at the receiver - you have to consider the progression, whether the receiver is looking for the ball, and whether Ben has a pocket to step into and a lane to make the throw, or if Ben isn't already scrambling or trying to find another spot to throw.

What Ben has improved at NOT doing is throwing a ball into coverage that is too tight with little chance of success. If a perfect throw can yield a completion, Ben will usually attempt that throw.

His health may have factored into it, as in the past he showed an inability to play within himself less than 100%. But my observation, when I've been able to see replays, is that usually when Ben is holding the ball it's because he has to and chooses to rather than just throw it away.

[ILLSTILL Profile]

Oh, my mistake. I meant to say that he doesn't throw to the tight windows during most of the game. He makes a living of tight window throws when it's time for one of his "wtf" drives of like, 90 yards.

I completely agree that he very rarely misses receivers when he throws. (I'm not sure if that's what you meant) I do, though, think he oftentimes doesn't see Miller on the short routes. At the same time though, in 2007, he ignored Miller AND the rb's sometimes. The guy is always improving.

You can't blame Arians or the O-line for this years offensive slump. (Faneca was NOT all that at that point)

And I agree the wr progression has partly to do with it.

Honestly, I predict for Big Ben to have an absolutely INSANE season in 2009. I won't throw down numbers yet, though.

It could be so many things, though. Could have partly to do with his bad shoulder, or maybe he was just struggling to see the whole field.

This whole argument is pointless, though, since ultimately we don't see eye to eye on how many open receivers Ben has indeed missed.

[gutofsteel Profile]

Yeah, I think part of his reluctance to squeeze in a tight one may have been the shoulder for much of the year, but I was looking for that, too, and saw little evidence of it.

I think the biggest thing was the offense clearly went through a transitional period where Ben and everyone else struggled as they switched to a quicker, shorter passing game. They got rid of a lot of the slow developing plays, finally because they had to, that Arians had shown a penchant for his first year and a half.

I think he'll have a big season next year too, if he can stay healthy, if for no other reason than the OL being together started playing better later in the year.