View topic - New Article: Cards and the Sup Bowl -- The Initial Key to Beating the RedBirds (Part 1 of a series)

[dracula in cleats Profile]

They need pressure early...they will need to be creative...but eventually woodly and harrison need to be able to put the kind of pressure on him they did flacco...warner is experienced but still prone to throw ints when rattled...if we cannot pressure, we can still win...but i think they need to gamble on pressure early...we have shown we can sustain a early TD against us and come back...

I think the key will be 'in game coachin'...adjustments...not letting this game get away from us...if we can make it a battle...we can pull this one out...it will be a tough game.

Go Stillers!

[SteelerPower Profile]

If the Steel defense gets pressure on Warner... then his recievers will as usual as tits on a bull.

[StillViews Profile]

It is commonplace for defenses to go to their nickle or dime substitution package when the offense goes 3 or 4 wide regardless of down. I can't recall the 2007 matchup against the Pats but shame on LeBeau if he didn't go with an extra DB. The defensive lineup that you describe is the Stillers nickle package. They use this package more frequently than the dime this year because Timmons is so fast and versatile he can cover well, blitz or get to the back on a run play out of that formation.

I too would expect a smart man like Wiz to go with his teams strengths, so we will see a lot of 3 or 4 wide sets.

Here's the issue -- You can't "go" to a package if it's NOT ALREADY on the field !! That's my point. You have to anticipate Cheeznhunt coming out on FIRST down with 4 Wides, 1 RB, and then exploiting the BASE defense. That is Cheezenhunt's MISMATCH in this chess game. Our base cannot cover 4 WRs of the caliber of AZ with a savvy, accurate QB like Warner. I'm well aware of what our nickel package is, and I'm advocating that it needs to be prepared to play on FIRST down, not only on 2nd & 9 or 3rd & 8. And yes, in the 2007 NE Pats matchup, LeBeau REFUSED to pull Hampton/Eason until 9:00 of the 4Q. By then, the ROUT WAS ON.

I wouldn't worry too much about this scenario; in reality it just doesn't happen. The defense doesn't try and anticipate the offensive personnel. The defense (even in high school football) always waits for the offensive unit to take the field and then determines the correct package to deploy. The defensive coaches play very close attention whether 2 RB's, 2 TE's or 2/3/4 or WR's are running onto the field on every down including 1st down. They then deploy the defensive defensive package that is called for those offensive personnel. In fact if the offense makes a substitution (regardless of down) they are obligated to allow the defense to make a substitution as well. Otherwise the offense would simply run their unit on the field from the sideline to the line of scrimmage and snap the ball. On a related note, if an offensive lineman enters the game and lines up as a tightend or eligible receiver he has to report this to the officials who in turn notify the defense. The rules are set up so that the defense has a fair chance to make a countermove with personnel substitutions on every down.

[shawnlucas Profile]

That's a good point, Views.

With so many offenses playing to the game clock and constantly trying to catch the defense in a late shift, defenses have practically all day to get their proper personnel on the field. If, however, the Cards start going no huddle and get cute, then things might get a little hairy.

[StillMill Profile]

That's a good point, Views.

With so many offenses playing to the game clock and constantly trying to catch the defense in a late shift, defenses have practically all day to get their proper personnel on the field. If, however, the Cards start going no huddle and get cute, then things might get a little hairy.

good point by Lucas. This Views fellow apparently doesn't have a high level of understanding. I know fuking well that the defense CAN sub in a various defenders when they spot a certain package trotting onto the field. I know fuking well that a defense CAN ADJUST after, say, getting torched on 3 TD drives. THAT is my point. In the NE fiasco, Dick, the supreme genius that yunz think he is, watched brady go 4-wide and NH and assrape the defense. Dick had about 56 plays to watch the assraping before he finally made a fuking adjustment. Dick didn't STOP PLAYING a fat, stubby NT until 9 fuking minutes were left in the game. By then the rout was on in a game that was very cclose (17-13) at halftime.

[Nittany Steel37 Profile]

Didn't Foote get pulled in favor of Timmons as the BMore game wore on? Because that's the impression I got from Mill's recap. That's a good sign because our defense IS A LOT stronger with LT3 (hehe) on the field. That makes me think that even if Foote starts, he'll be on a tight leash. But yeah, I think a lot of the time we can afford to run our nickel, or at least sub a more nimble DL in for Casey because that package should be able to stop the run pretty well because, well, they're the PITTSBURGH STEELERS!

[NORTHSIDESTEEL Profile]

This is why this is my favorite Steeler website. I think that Mill has correctly identified the most obvious challenge the defense faces, and most importantly, a solution. Once can only hope Dick throws this in the mix, though it will be hard to disguise, as the Cards will see it as soon as they miss Hampton in the middle. Certainly the placement and use of Troy will be key in at least distracting Warner.

[Mrsteve Profile]

I don't see the point in using that 2008 Pats game as a comparison to anything.

A. The Patriots were playing a different brand of football than everyone else, and
B. We were trying to stop the most prolific passing attack ever with Anthony Smith, an in-over-his-head William Gay, and a limping Troy Polamalu.

The only earthly way to stop that team was to a) get pressure with just 4 rushers (which we couldn't do) and b) hope they have an off day.

Sometimes you just face a team that is better than you. For some reason, that possibility never enters the post-game analysis here.

Having said that...I don't think this Cardinals team is anywhere close to the level of that Pats team - particularly in terms of pass protection.

The reason Boldin was pissed on the sidelines is because the Cards had to go to a 2 TE set in order to protect Warner against the Eagles. And while the Eagles D can create chaos, their pass rushers just don't get home like ours do. I think we will hit Warner more.

Also, Jimmy Johnson likes to play man behind his blitzes, which Dick Lebeau does not like to do. Fitzgerald may catch 15 balls next week, but I don't think you will see him running free across the middle with Asante Samuel desperately trying to catch up. Dick, I assume, will make sure that someone is waiting for him on the end of that crossing pattern that killed the Eagles.

By the way, if we lose, Mill will kill Lebeau for playing zone even though that is really the only option you have against this offense.

[StillMill Profile]

We know yer not too bright, Steve.....so let me explain a few things for you --

I don't see the point in using that 2008 Pats game as a comparison to anything.

Let's see ....a talented, EXPERIENCED, offense led by a cool, ultra-accurate gunslinger who has THREE (3) 1,000 WRs, 1 of whom is playing the BEST WR seen in the past 18 years, along with a solid, gritty 4th WR, and 2 RBs who are quite capable of catching the ball. Yup, gee, I guess there is no point in "using the 2007 Pats game as a comparison." According to Ol' Steve here, we should be prepared for a plungefest of epic proportions, in which Cheezenhunt will shuck the passing game and try to plow James and Hightower up the gut at least 37 times in this game.

We were trying to stop the most prolific passing attack ever with Anthony Smith, an in-over-his-head William Gay, and a limping Troy Polamalu.

.

All the more reason, when NE abandoned their running game, to remove the fat, stubby NOSE TACKLE from the def. alignment.......which never happened until after the assraping occurred.

Sometimes you just face a team that is better than you. For some reason, that possibility never enters the post-game analysis here.

this was a 17-13 game at halftime, meaning it was ANYBODY's game and that we were on par with that team. And then we got assraped in the 2nd half when New Eng. NEVER ran the ball and played on a "powerplay" with 11 on 10. Sometime you have to adjust to the SCHEME and the TACTICS that an opponent is using, rather than standing ossified on the sidelines with your thumb up your anus.

Having said that...I don't think this Cardinals team is anywhere close to the level of that Pats team - particularly in terms of pass protection.

Truth be told, the Patriots never had supreme Hall of Famers on their O-line. They had a patchwork, journeyman O-line that scraped by just enough and, with the quick-hitting plays they liked to run, ESPECIALLLY out of the spread offense, their O-line didn't need to block for 6 seconds each play.

By the way, if we lose, Mill will kill Lebeau for playing zone even though that is really the only option you have against this offense

Uh, dumfuk, that is not the ONLY option. Dick can use Ike in man coverage and still use Clark in a deep zone. Actually, in the nickel alignment, Dick can -- and should -- play man-zone and target 2 WRs to man up on and jam. Pola will perform about 19 different schemes during the game......sometimes man, sometimes blitz, often zone.

[Mrsteve Profile]

I hate the idea of Ike matching up one on one with any of their receivers. He is certainly physical enough to get a bump on them, but I'm not sure you can really disrupt Fitzgerald or Boldin of their routes. And the idea of Ike and Fitzgerald going after a a ball in their air is kind of terrifying, because Ike seems to have some sort of weird depth perception problem.

There is nothing wrong in letting Fitzgerald catch ten passes as long as none of them are more than 15 yards and as long as you tackle him.

Make the Cardinals sustain long drives, because their tackles can't handle Harrison and Woodley and Warner will give you chances for big plays on D. He doesn't fumble as much as he used to, but he is still the most immobile QB in football.

Hold them to 21 or less and we win.

[StillMill Profile]

I hate the idea of Ike matching up one on one with any of their receivers. He is certainly physical enough to get a bump on them, but I'm not sure you can really disrupt Fitzgerald or Boldin of their routes. And the idea of Ike and Fitzgerald going after a a ball in their air is kind of terrifying, because Ike seems to have some sort of weird depth perception problem.

Ilke NEEDS to match up with someone. He CAN, and he must. He's got the size, skill, and experience to do so. He's staved off superb receivers in the past, such as Ocho. And, Tomlin is going to provide him deep help with a safety. Ike certainly has his troubles playing deep balls -- we all remember the Indy fiasco a few months ago -- but his coverage is solid. McFadden is big enough and capable enough as well. Townsend has a size disadvantage, but his guile and savvy give him a fighting chance a good bit of the time. Overall, Warner is so accurate that, if you play an entire zone, he is going to essentially be throwing the ball to a tire, which he can do blindfolded from 25 yards out.

There is nothing wrong in letting Fitzgerald catch ten passes as long as none of them are more than 15 yards and as long as you tackle him.

150 yards ? That's a lot of offense generated by 1 player. I'd prefer he be limited to something a bit less.

Make the Cardinals sustain long drives, because their tackles can't handle Harrison and Woodley and Warner will give you chances for big plays on D. He doesn't fumble as much as he used to, but he is still the most immobile QB in football.

This actually makes sense, which is WHY, if Cheezenhunt goes 4-wide, we must COUNTER by removing Fat Casey. Dare them to plunge the ball with James. 4 yards to James is better than 17 to a WR.

Hold them to 21 or less and we win.

This assumes Arians, the human dumbass, can score 22 points ? We should be able to move the ball vs. AZ. The key hurdle is simply overcoming the sabateur, Bruce Arians.

[ashpitt08 Profile]

IMO Lebeau needs to look at the strategy used against the colts in the divisional round - Jan 06. it will serve the Stiller D very well in this super bowl; Do not, under any circumstances let those receivers get a free release off the line of scrimmage.

Even in the Stiller base Manning was off the entire first half & indeed most of the game because of this tactic combined with pressure.

The cards O is also based on timing routes designed to get RAC yards and as such, this Stiller D (which is much better than the 05 unit) will be incredibly disruptive & frustrate the cards to no end rendering them the team more reminiscent of the one that lost 7 games during the regular season as opposed to the playoff Cards.

I haven’t looked up the numbers yet, but if memory serves, those Colts were one the most dominant high scoring offenses in modern NFL history, better than the cards O we will see in SB XLIII.

[logjammin Profile]

Mill writes:

... Fat Casey Hampton, or Nick Eason, to do nothing more than paw and titty-joust with the center or guard...

___________________________________________________________

And he keeps insisting that this allows the cards to play 11 on 10. But if they have to assign a blocker to Hampton, and the blocker is able to completely neutralize Hampton, doesn't that mean they are playing 10 on 10? I don't think there's any man alive who can block Fat Casey and do something else at the same time.

In the 3-4, the Defensive line is supposed to occupy the offensive line, so that the guys standing behind the D line can "make plays." Basically they are blocking the blockers. If the 3 DL can occupy 5 OL that would allow the Stiller D to play "8 on 6," when the Cards are attempting to pass. And if they try to run, the DL are clogging up the lanes.

But yeah, my point is it's not 10 on 11 if they assign a lineman (or 2) to block Hampton.

[Mrsteve Profile]

Yea. I actually don't get how taking Hampton out makes our pass rush that much better. Hampton's job is to basically to sit down and not let a QB step up in the pocket, because so much of our pressure comes from the outside.

Also, I don't think this is your father's pass defense. The way to beat this 3-4 has always been to spread it out, because the secondary was so average for so many years. I think we go 5 deep right now with d-backs who can make you pay. There isn't a hopeless Lee Flowers among them.

Anyway, if Whisenhunt decides to throw every down out of a 4 receiver set, he has already made a huge concession. If he wants to willingly make himself one dimensional and just allow our backers to sell out on the rush all day long, I will take that as a huge huge victory.

I don't have this incredible fear of this offense that everyone else seems to have. They have been hot in the playoffs, but this is not the '83 Redskins or '98 Vikings. And it's really just been Fitzgerald undressing d-backs who have been stupidly left alone with him.

[StillMill Profile]

Mill writes:

... Fat Casey Hampton, or Nick Eason, to do nothing more than paw and titty-joust with the center or guard...

___________________________________________________________

And he keeps insisting that this allows the cards to play 11 on 10. But if they have to assign a blocker to Hampton, and the blocker is able to completely neutralize Hampton, doesn't that mean they are playing 10 on 10? I don't think there's any man alive who can block Fat Casey and do something else at the same time.

In the 3-4, the Defensive line is supposed to occupy the offensive line, so that the guys standing behind the D line can "make plays." Basically they are blocking the blockers. If the 3 DL can occupy 5 OL that would allow the Stiller D to play "8 on 6," when the Cards are attempting to pass. And if they try to run, the DL are clogging up the lanes.

But yeah, my point is it's not 10 on 11 if they assign a lineman (or 2) to block Hampton.

You don't strike me as terribly bright, so let me help you understand this.

When you play a team that has TOTALLY ABANDONED its RUNNING game -- which is exactly what the Pats did after halftime of what was a 17-13 game -- you NEED all 11 defenders on the field to do at least 1 of 3 things:

1. Harass the passer
2. Cover pass receivers, be it WRs, TEs, or RBs
3. tackle pass receivers

For starters, Hampton is NEVER, EVER double-teamed on pass plays. He is a fat, pudgy, RUN STUFFING Nose Tackle. No team in the NFL has ever had to DOUBLE-team Fat Boy on PASS plays. Only on extrememly RARE occasions does Fat Boy get pressure on a QB, and he sure as hell cannot chase down a scrambling QB.

Obviously, he canot cover pass receivers.

Obviously, he cannot TACKLE pass receivers, even if it's a 4-yard slant.

This is exactly why we played 10 on 11 in that loss to NE. We had the equivalent of a 55-gallon drum, just STANDING STILL in the middle of the field, DOING NOTHING. No harassment on the passer; no coverage; no tackling on RAC. NOTHING. Brady had ZERO harassment to deal with, and his receivers were not only WIDE open, but were also getting huge chunks of RAC yardage.

All of this happened on national TV. I am utterly amazed at the outright DENIAL that it ever occured.

[Mrsteve Profile]

Mill writes:

... Fat Casey Hampton, or Nick Eason, to do nothing more than paw and titty-joust with the center or guard...

___________________________________________________________

And he keeps insisting that this allows the cards to play 11 on 10. But if they have to assign a blocker to Hampton, and the blocker is able to completely neutralize Hampton, doesn't that mean they are playing 10 on 10? I don't think there's any man alive who can block Fat Casey and do something else at the same time.

In the 3-4, the Defensive line is supposed to occupy the offensive line, so that the guys standing behind the D line can "make plays." Basically they are blocking the blockers. If the 3 DL can occupy 5 OL that would allow the Stiller D to play "8 on 6," when the Cards are attempting to pass. And if they try to run, the DL are clogging up the lanes.

But yeah, my point is it's not 10 on 11 if they assign a lineman (or 2) to block Hampton.

You don't strike me as terribly bright, so let me help you understand this.

When you play a team that has TOTALLY ABANDONED its RUNNING game -- which is exactly what the Pats did after halftime of what was a 17-13 game -- you NEED all 11 defenders on the field to do at least 1 of 3 things:

1. Harass the passer
2. Cover pass receivers, be it WRs, TEs, or RBs
3. tackle pass receivers

For starters, Hampton is NEVER, EVER double-teamed on pass plays. He is a fat, pudgy, RUN STUFFING Nose Tackle. No team in the NFL has ever had to DOUBLE-team Fat Boy on PASS plays. Only on extrememly RARE occasions does Fat Boy get pressure on a QB, and he sure as hell cannot chase down a scrambling QB.

Obviously, he canot cover pass receivers.

Obviously, he cannot TACKLE pass receivers, even if it's a 4-yard slant.

This is exactly why we played 10 on 11 in that loss to NE. We had the equivalent of a 55-gallon drum, just STANDING STILL in the middle of the field, DOING NOTHING. No harassment on the passer; no coverage; no tackling on RAC. NOTHING. Brady had ZERO harassment to deal with, and his receivers were not only WIDE open, but were also getting huge chunks of RAC yardage.

All of this happened on national TV. I am utterly amazed at the outright DENIAL that it ever occured.

I saw that game. The Patriots were much better than us; they won 18 straight games. Brady was sacked 21 times all year even though he three 2100 passes. I don't see the relevance to this discussion. The Steelers could have used time travel to bring in Joe Greene from 1974 and we weren't getting to him that day.

Anyway, I think Whisenhunt is going to try to run the ball at least early. He knows that his defense is lousy and doesn't want to get into the 3 plays and a punt situation he got into against Philly in the second half.

[StillMill Profile]

I saw that game. The Patriots were much better than us; they won 18 straight games.

it was a TIGHT, 17-13 game at halftime. Hardly sounds like that team was "much better than us". If there were so almighty and 10 times greater than us, why were they leading by only 4 points at the half ??

Brady was sacked 21 times all year even though he three 2100 passes. I don't see the relevance to this discussion. The Steelers could have used time travel to bring in Joe Greene from 1974 and we weren't getting to him that day.

Like I said above, it's not ONLY about pass pressure. If you replace Fat Boy, you can USE someone ELSE as a COVERAGE player. You know -- a backup CB. Or a fast backup LB. NFL rules allow you to have a maximum of 11 players on the field. If you WASTE 1 of those players on a fat lardass who literally STOOD around, DOING NOTHING, in the middle of the field, you have just pissed away about 10% of your defense. Defending a good passing scheme like NE's was hard enough. Defending it with only 90% of what the NFL allows you to have on the field, is fuking fruitless insanity.

I realize this is diffcult for you to comprehend, but please.....at least TRY. Use your brain, please, for once. Thank you.

[Mrsteve Profile]

The Pats' game was close at halftime because our offense was doing a pretty good job in putting together long drives, and actually won the TOP battle for the half. And the Pats were settling for field goals.

They scored two TDs in about 8 seconds to start the second half, and that was that.

Again, I don't see the relevance as this Cards' team is not that good and our defense is better. And, it's crazy to let the other team dictate the matchups. Like I said, if Whiz wants to become one dimensional, you let him. Our nickle and dime packages with Timmons are a thousand times better than they were last year. Committing to some weird 1-4-6 defense or something when you are the #1 defense in the league is being unnecessarily desperate.

Man for man, our D is better than their O. If you line 'em up and play it out, we should win 65 to 70 percent of the time.

(Question: Do you think Tomlin starts Bam Morris just to piss Mill off?)

[StillMill Profile]

The Pats' game was close at halftime because our offense was doing a pretty good job in putting together long drives, and actually won the TOP battle for the half. And the Pats were settling for field goals.

It was close, in large part, because NE was playing it SLIGHTLY to the vest. At halftime in their locker room, they shed all caution and totally ABANDONED the running game.

They scored two TDs in about 8 seconds to start the second half, and that was that.

Actually, they didn't. NE scored their 1st 3Q TD on a 5-play drive, at 10:06 3Q. Their 2nd TD of the 3rd Q. was a long, laborious, 10-play assraping that consumed 4:35 of clock, with the TD scored at 3:49 3Q. The Pats never once ran the ball on that drive, even on 4th & 1. So much for the "in about 8 seconds" bullshit.

Just for further measure, the NE FG drive in the 4Q was a long, laborious, 13 play march that chewed up 6:27 of clock. and again, the Pats NEVER ONCE tried to run the ball. Not once. The idiots out there will assume you can't chew clock with the passing game. When yer playing 11 on 10, you quite obviously CAN. And NE did.

Again, I don't see the relevance as this Cards' team is not that good and our defense is better.

The Cards TEAM may not be that good, but their offense IS the best offense we've faced all year. By far.

And, it's crazy to let the other team dictate the matchups.

The offense has the last say, you idiot, because they can line up in whatever formation (within NFL rules, of course) that they so desire. If they want to line up in a Single-Wing, they can. Power-I, they can. Put Larry Fitz at FB, they can. It's up to the defense to SEE, then ADJUST. Dick failed to do this in that NE loss and he got sodomized with a brooom-handle that was covered by barbed wire.

Like I said, if Whiz wants to become one dimensional, you let him.

Sure, just like the Pats did last year. We "let" them, by keeping a fat, 1-dimensional run stuffer on the field against a team that had zero interest in running the ball.

Committing to some weird 1-4-6 defense or something when you are the #1 defense in the league is being unnecessarily desperate.

This ain't no weird scheme.....it is THE nickel or the dime, and some mods of it. I already tacked the footage of the Pola INT. Smith was THE ONLY man with his hand on the ground on that play.

[SteelMohawk Profile]

Committing to some weird 1-4-6 defense or something when you are the #1 defense in the league is being unnecessarily desperate.

Even when LeBeau runs his 1-4-6 OR his 1-5-5 OR his 2-4-5, Aaron Smith AND Brett Keisel are on the field. Keisel just lines up as a standup LB, when he can rush the passer, stunt or cover a TE/RB. Also Foote has been replaced more and more in these formations, due to Timmons's ability to play a Mack back or an edge rusher. There is a reason it has been so successful this year, and why Mill likes it(no Foote no Casey). But in reality it is the best way for LeBeau(or better yet, the players LeBeau has on the field) to confuse opponents, give infinite looks, and have the most speed on the field at one time.