View topic - New Article: Stillers-Giants Postgame Analysis and Grades

[btd343 Profile]

I almost jumped out the window when Aikman said Arians was "one of the better offensive coordinators in the league." Who is this guy fooling? I thought no one after the Jack game last year... but he continues to amaze me every week. It's the most gutless, predictable, bone-headed play calling and it seems to get worse as the magnitude of the game increases. Just a couple points because I could ramble all day... Heath Miller is so under-utilized it's crazy... this guy has the talent of Jason Witten but no one would ever know it. My favorite play call was the 4th down with two minutes to go in the 4th... that shitty flare pass to Ward that every team in the league has seen 50 times... 4 yards to go on 4TH DOWN and he runs a 2 yard flare... I almost lost it.

The O-line is a whole other story. This team misses Russ Grimm BAD... not only do they look like they're getting blown back into the backfield... but they look seriously confused. Kiwi came completely untouched off the end a couple times. If this keeps up Ben is going to get hurt.

The defense kept us in the game... but the offense has to give some relief... we can't count on Jaime Harrison bailing us out all the time.

[McLovin Profile]

As usual McLovin enjoys starting his Monday morning with Mill's analysis and as usual McLovin finds little to argue about. However, McLovin wants to take Mill to task about the play of Ryan Clark in this game. True, Jacobs trucked him big time on a couple plays but the spleenless wonder hung on to that beast for dear life! Clark was in the thick of each of those goal line stops and the hit he put on Steve Smith knocking the ball out was a thing of beauty. McLovin likes the heart Clark showed yesterday. It was too bad he couldn't finish the game.

[El Nino Profile]

way too hard on the defense bro, they played their asses off. the offense was what blew it

[Jeemie Profile]

1) Every team in the history of the NFL, except Tomlin, since the beginning of time.

Nope. Wrong answer. try again.

2) The SeaChickens this year.....check out Tyler Schmitt. Last year....check out Bill Bartum getting hurt for Philly, which made them get Jon Dorenbos as a band-aid. I can go on and on and on.......part of the game.

I'll give you credit for naming two- it's much rarer than you think.

Philly had no one trained to do Bartum's job. Hell- one year, Akers got hurt and they brought a LINEMAN in to kick a FG because no one could do AKERS' job.

Tomlin is right- teams have one long snapper. The rest are emergency long snappers...who get hardly ANY practice time.

[Zorro Profile]

Because your're a dumbass, let me summarize all of this:

1. A center SHOULD have been worked out DURING CAMP, and DURING a MEANINGLESS PRESEASON GAME, to get some work at long snapping, rather than tossing ALL of our eggs into the basket of a career LINEBACKER who hsa never, ever SNAPPED, or LONG SNAPPED, in a football game.

I don't care what position the backup long snapper plays naturally. this is what everyone seems to fail to understand. It is absolutely irrelevant. Here is how it works...

AT some point during training camp, you take an informal survey on the team by show of hands "who can long snap?" Maybe 5 guy sraise their hands. OK, you 5 stay after practice today and we'll see who can actually do it. After watching everyone give it a shot, you pick one who you then label your emergency long snapper. In this situation, it looks like that someone was James Harrison. If the above scenario did not take place, shame on the special teams coach; however, I am pretty sure the above scenario happened. If the guy who won that competition was a center, great. If the person who won the competition was a free safety, great. The point is simple... it really doesn't matter what position they play naturally. In that scenarioo, they have one job and one job only... get the ball back to the punter accuarately for one day we can sign a replacement tomorrow.

Executing an accurate long snap and executing an accurate shotgun snap are about as similar as shooting a basketball and shooting a rifle. Just as long snapping and shotgun snapping share the word "snap", shooting a basketball and a rifle share the word "shoot". The similarities end there and the skill is completely different.

[Jeemie Profile]

Because your're a dumbass, let me summarize all of this:

1. A center SHOULD have been worked out DURING CAMP, and DURING a MEANINGLESS PRESEASON GAME, to get some work at long snapping, rather than tossing ALL of our eggs into the basket of a career LINEBACKER who hsa never, ever SNAPPED, or LONG SNAPPED, in a football game.

I don't care what position the backup long snapper plays naturally. this is what everyone seems to fail to understand. It is absolutely irrelevant. Here is how it works...

AT some point during training camp, you take an informal survey on the team by show of hands "who can long snap?" Maybe 5 guy sraise their hands. OK, you 5 stay after practice today and we'll see who can actually do it. After watching everyone give it a shot, you pick one who you then label your emergency long snapper. In this situation, it looks like that someone was James Harrison. If the above scenario did not take place, shame on the special teams coach; however, I am pretty sure the above scenario happened. If the guy who won that competition was a center, great. If the person who won the competition was a free safety, great. The point is simple... it really doesn't matter what position they play naturally. In that scenarioo, they have one job and one job only... get the ball back to the punter accuarately for one day we can sign a replacement tomorrow.

Executing an accurate long snap and executing an accurate shotgun snap are about as similar as shooting a basketball and shooting a rifle. Just as long snapping and shotgun snapping share the word "snap", shooting a basketball and a rifle share the word "shoot". The similarities end there and the skill is completely different.

People seem to think that Harrison absolutely sucked at the snap.

He didn't- it was a nice, tight spiral and fairly accurate...it was simply too high.

Probably a combo of Harrison being a little jacked up and Berger having been moved forward a couple of yards.

If you think "practicing in a pre-season game" would have helped with that, you're fucking insane.

And here's another question for you. Suppose the person that was picked in preseason to be the emergency long-snapper was injured?

Should we then lambaste Tomlin because he didn't train up another person to be the backup to the backup?

This whole focus on the backup long-snapper is bogus.

We should rather be asking why we were in that position in a game where our defense held an opponent that started almost every drive in our territory to 4 FGs in 6 red-zone trips.

And that comes down to shitty execution by Ben, the receivers, and the O-line, for the most part.

[Steeledge Profile]

People seem to think that Harrison absolutely sucked at the snap.
He didn't- it was a nice, tight spiral and fairly accurate...it was simply too high.
Probably a combo of Harrison being a little jacked up and Berger having been moved forward a couple of yards.

I honestly have to wonder if Harrison didn't snap it over his head on purpose. Here's the quote from this article...

“I was nervous about snapping for the first time in a game,” Harrison said. “But my feeling was that even if I shot it over his head, we still had a chance to stop them.”

Sounds more like nobody had a clear plan and everybody was just flying by the seat of their pants, which doesn't bode well for a coaching staff...
...and having a hobbled Berger try the free kick afterward instead of a healthy Reed was absolutely imbecilic, IMHO...

[Steeledge Profile]

...comes down to shitty execution by Ben, the receivers, and the O-line, for the most part.

If I would order that list by whose most at fault, I'd say the O-Line has to be first by a wide margin.
Without Colon's gaffes alone, that game was at least tied...

[Lake37 Profile]

I agree with ya Jeemie. Harrison's snap looked like the snap of a legitimate long snapper in terms of the tight spiral and velocity, it was simply way too high. He actually looked like someone who knew how to long snap, whether he had prior experience or not.

We were extremely fortunate to have been in this game and the only reason we were is because of outstanding play by our defense in the red zone.

The safety after the poor snap was a huge play in this game, but this game revealed far more problems that this team has that could possibly keep them from being an elite team in this league. BR7 played very poorly, but this was primarily caused by a combo of poor play by the O-line and him holding on to the ball too long at times.

The 4th and 4 play call was an absolutely horrible play call...but after last year's QB sweep to the left when we need the 1st down, I guess it shouldn't come as a huge surprise.

[Jeemie Profile]

People seem to think that Harrison absolutely sucked at the snap.
He didn't- it was a nice, tight spiral and fairly accurate...it was simply too high.
Probably a combo of Harrison being a little jacked up and Berger having been moved forward a couple of yards.

I honestly have to wonder if Harrison didn't snap it over his head on purpose. Here's the quote from this article...

“I was nervous about snapping for the first time in a game,” Harrison said. “But my feeling was that even if I shot it over his head, we still had a chance to stop them.”

Sounds more like nobody had a clear plan and everybody was just flying by the seat of their pants, which doesn't bode well for a coaching staff...
...and having a hobbled Berger try the free kick afterward instead of a healthy Reed was absolutely imbecilic, IMHO...

You can't plan for everything. Nobody in the NFL (regardless of what Mill and Timmay would like to say) plans for what to do in case the long snapper to get hurt.

I agree on the free kick, but I don't know the rules- are you allowed to kick from a tee on a free kick?

[Jeemie Profile]

I agree with ya Jeemie. Harrison's snap looked like the snap of a legitimate long snapper in terms of the tight spiral and velocity, it was simply way too high. He actually looked like someone who knew how to long snap, whether he had prior experience or not.

We were extremely fortunate to have been in this game and the only reason we were is because of outstanding play by our defense in the red zone.

The safety after the poor snap was a huge play in this game, but this game revealed far more problems that this team has that could possibly keep them from being an elite team in this league. BR7 played very poorly, but this was primarily caused by a combo of poor play by the O-line and him holding on to the ball too long at times.

The 4th and 4 play call was an absolutely horrible play call...but after last year's QB sweep to the left when we need the 1st down, I guess it shouldn't come as a huge surprise.

On 4th and 4, it was still only 14-9.

At that point, IMHO, a better option than what we called was a pooch punt. Maybe we pin them deep, and they don't drive to get another TD.

[StillMill Profile]

Since many of you are borderline illiterate, I'll reiterate this for you:

THERE WAS NO MANDATORY NFL REQUIREMENT to perform a 15-yard snap-and-punt on that 4th down.

Let me repeat this again: THERE WAS NO MANDATORY NFL REQUIREMENT to perform a 15-yard snap-and-punt on that 4th down. I checked the NFL rulebook, and I can assure you that this is not a requirement.

One last time: THERE WAS NO MANDATORY NFL REQUIREMENT to perform a 15-yard snap-and-punt on that 4th down.

Remember, not only was Harrison a liability as the snapper, but Berger had clearly pulled a muscle and was hobbling around and wincing in pain. A snap to the left or right of Berger, or even a low snap, would have been fraught with danger due to Berger’s very limited mobility.

You can rationalize this with bullshit amazement about how Tomlin "couldn't have planned for an injured snapper." THERE WAS NO MANDATORY NFL REQUIREMENT to perform a 15-yard snap-and-punt on that 4th down. AGAIN, you have to wonder if Tomlin had fully considered all other options, including considering it 4-down territory or having Ben pooch punt the ball from a SG formation. For gawd's sake, ANYTHING would have been better than the recipe for disaster of having a guy who had NEVER long snapped a ball in a live game trying to snap the ball deep in his own territory to a hobbling, non-athletic punter who was wincing and limping in pain from a pulled hammy.

[Jeemie Profile]

Since many of you are borderline illiterate, I'll reiterate this for you:

THERE WAS NO MANDATORY NFL REQUIREMENT to perform a 15-yard snap-and-punt on that 4th down.

Let me repeat this again: THERE WAS NO MANDATORY NFL REQUIREMENT to perform a 15-yard snap-and-punt on that 4th down. I checked the NFL rulebook, and I can assure you that this is not a requirement.

One last time: THERE WAS NO MANDATORY NFL REQUIREMENT to perform a 15-yard snap-and-punt on that 4th down.

Remember, not only was Harrison a liability as the snapper, but Berger had clearly pulled a muscle and was hobbling around and wincing in pain. A snap to the left or right of Berger, or even a low snap, would have been fraught with danger due to Berger’s very limited mobility.

You can rationalize this with bullshit amazement about how Tomlin "couldn't have planned for an injured snapper." THERE WAS NO MANDATORY NFL REQUIREMENT to perform a 15-yard snap-and-punt on that 4th down. AGAIN, you have to wonder if Tomlin had fully considered all other options, including considering it 4-down territory or having Ben pooch punt the ball from a SG formation. For gawd's sake, ANYTHING would have been better than the recipe for disaster of having a guy who had NEVER long snapped a ball in a live game trying to snap the ball deep in his own territory to a hobbling, non-athletic punter who was wincing and limping in pain from a pulled hammy.

OK- I'll play.

1) Ben pooch-punting it probably gives the Giants the same field position they got from the free kick. So the final score is 19-14 instead of 21-14.

2) Going for it on 4th-15 would've been utter foolishness considering the way the offense had been playing. Likely result- 19-14.

3) Line up Berger at shotgun level so Hartwig could snap it to him? Line up a wounded punter in prime position for the D to tee off on him? Yeah- THAT would be a great plan! Likely result- 19-14.

It is to be noted that Berger did not line up 15 yards off the ball- he lined up 12 yards off the ball. So you aren't even accurately describing what the Steelers ACTUALLY DID.

Now...instead of bitching and whining about what didn't work, how about you provide some concrete examples as to what MIGHT have worked?

Then we can have some actual analysis as to likely results, instead of you just bloviating about how much smarter you are than everyone else.

[Zorro Profile]

Since many of you are borderline illiterate, I'll reiterate this for you:

THERE WAS NO MANDATORY NFL REQUIREMENT to perform a 15-yard snap-and-punt on that 4th down.

Let me repeat this again: THERE WAS NO MANDATORY NFL REQUIREMENT to perform a 15-yard snap-and-punt on that 4th down. I checked the NFL rulebook, and I can assure you that this is not a requirement.

One last time: THERE WAS NO MANDATORY NFL REQUIREMENT to perform a 15-yard snap-and-punt on that 4th down.

Remember, not only was Harrison a liability as the snapper, but Berger had clearly pulled a muscle and was hobbling around and wincing in pain. A snap to the left or right of Berger, or even a low snap, would have been fraught with danger due to Berger’s very limited mobility.

You can rationalize this with bullshit amazement about how Tomlin "couldn't have planned for an injured snapper." THERE WAS NO MANDATORY NFL REQUIREMENT to perform a 15-yard snap-and-punt on that 4th down. AGAIN, you have to wonder if Tomlin had fully considered all other options, including considering it 4-down territory or having Ben pooch punt the ball from a SG formation. For gawd's sake, ANYTHING would have been better than the recipe for disaster of having a guy who had NEVER long snapped a ball in a live game trying to snap the ball deep in his own territory to a hobbling, non-athletic punter who was wincing and limping in pain from a pulled hammy.

Listen turd boy. I'll make this simple for you so can't chnage the subject when backed into a corner. I only posted on this issue for one reason. That was to highlight your lack of understanding for the very game you proclaim to be an expert on. You asserted that a center's skills should have somehow translated into being a capable long snapper and Harrison's natural position of linebacker somehow disqualified him as a capable long snapper. All this crap about pouch punts and so on is just a lame attempt to cover up your own failures as an analyst. YOu once again went out on a limb on a subject matter which you clearly didn't understand in a lame attempt to be "right". It's plain to see by anyone reading through this you don't know what you are talking about. All the rest is just conversation.

[StillMill Profile]

Since many of you are borderline illiterate, I'll reiterate this for you:

THERE WAS NO MANDATORY NFL REQUIREMENT to perform a 15-yard snap-and-punt on that 4th down.

Let me repeat this again: THERE WAS NO MANDATORY NFL REQUIREMENT to perform a 15-yard snap-and-punt on that 4th down. I checked the NFL rulebook, and I can assure you that this is not a requirement.

One last time: THERE WAS NO MANDATORY NFL REQUIREMENT to perform a 15-yard snap-and-punt on that 4th down.

Remember, not only was Harrison a liability as the snapper, but Berger had clearly pulled a muscle and was hobbling around and wincing in pain. A snap to the left or right of Berger, or even a low snap, would have been fraught with danger due to Berger’s very limited mobility.

You can rationalize this with bullshit amazement about how Tomlin "couldn't have planned for an injured snapper." THERE WAS NO MANDATORY NFL REQUIREMENT to perform a 15-yard snap-and-punt on that 4th down. AGAIN, you have to wonder if Tomlin had fully considered all other options, including considering it 4-down territory or having Ben pooch punt the ball from a SG formation. For gawd's sake, ANYTHING would have been better than the recipe for disaster of having a guy who had NEVER long snapped a ball in a live game trying to snap the ball deep in his own territory to a hobbling, non-athletic punter who was wincing and limping in pain from a pulled hammy.

Listen turd boy. I'll make this simple for you so can't chnage the subject when backed into a corner. I only posted on this issue for one reason. That was to highlight your lack of understanding for the very game you proclaim to be an expert on. You asserted that a center's skills should have somehow translated into being a capable long snapper and Harrison's natural position of linebacker somehow disqualified him as a capable long snapper. All this crap about pouch punts and so on is just a lame attempt to cover up your own failures as an analyst. YOu once again went out on a limb on a subject matter which you clearly didn't understand in a lame attempt to be "right". It's plain to see by anyone reading through this you don't know what you are talking about. All the rest is just conversation.

bullshit, a-hole. I listed the centers as POSSIBILITIES that COULD HAVE BEEN explored in preseason and on the SIDELINES, as an OPTION as opposed to man who has never, ever snapped a football in ANY KIND OF SNAP in an NCAA or NFL game. But you're too much of an a-hole and fukstick to understand that. No matter, we're done with you. Goodbye.

[Steeledge Profile]

I don't know the rules- are you allowed to kick from a tee on a free kick?

Yes - a "free kick" means just that, and you can do it any way you like.

and don't worry about not knowing the rules...there are many here that don't but still run at the keyboard, so you're among cohorts...

[Steeledge Profile]

I listed the centers as POSSIBILITIES that COULD HAVE BEEN explored in preseason and on the SIDELINES, as an OPTION as opposed to man who has never, ever snapped a football in ANY KIND OF SNAP in an NCAA or NFL game. But you're too much of an a-hole and fukstick to understand that. No matter, we're done with you. Goodbye.

You're overlooking the point, Mill, and hyperventilating because somebody is once again doubting your "mad analyst skills"...

a> Harrison was pegged as the backup long snapper for a reason. We were all surprised, but apparently he qualified somehow...

b> The snap didn't have horrible form, it was just way too high...

c> It's possible that James tried to put it over his head, although only he would know why...
Here's a quote from this article...

“I was nervous about snapping for the first time in a game,” Harrison said. “But my feeling was that even if I shot it over his head, we still had a chance to stop them.”

I think when it comes down to it, it's possible that Harrison could have legitimately made a good snap, but decided not to, and that one decision by James Harrison could have been the difference in the game.

That said, all these tirades and pissing matches and getting our blood a-boilin' ain't gonna make a hill o' shit's difference.
When the dust settled, the Steelers lost the game and several key players and now we need to pick ourselves up and get ready for next week.
Here's hoping the OL and Arians can get their shit together
...or it's only going to get worse...

[Jeemie Profile]

I don't know the rules- are you allowed to kick from a tee on a free kick?

Yes - a "free kick" means just that, and you can do it any way you like.

and don't worry about not knowing the rules...there are many here that don't but still run at the keyboard, so you're among cohorts...

OK- well, then, I'll get on Tomlin for that- he should have used Reed, and not a hobbled Berger.

Reed's already shown he can get "hang time" on kickoffs anyway.

[StillDodger Profile]

I RARELY blame a HC for something that occurs on the field, but the oversight of not having a backup long snapper is solely on Coach Tomlin. Hopefully, he learned a valuable lesson.

Note that had the snap been good, the Giants would have had about 15 yards better field position...... The Giants did drive for a TD on the possession after the safety. Whether the D would have responded differently with a shorter field behind it and a 2 point lead is pure speculation.

I still think the key play of the game was that holding penalty. Not only did it negate a TD that would have given the Steelers a two-score lead, but it gave the best defense in the NFL a reprieve. And the Giants' D was bent on not letting anything close to a successful play like that (had there been no penalty) happen again. That penalty changed the game completely.

[StillDodger Profile]

I personally think Willie Colon's holding penalty on the TD hurt more than Ben's 4 INTs and botched snap safety combined. (Two of the INTs were on 4th down..... It wouldn't have made any difference if they were inc. passes. This is why statistics at face value are so deceiving.) And I personally would have given him a big fat F, because he was the one who kept being scorched by the Giants' pass rush. Maybe the single worst performance I've seen by an offensive lineman in a long time, even without the holding penalty.

In regard to Ben, he did throw a lot of incompletions simply to avoid even more sacks..... (He has made avoiding intentional grounding an artform.) The line mismatch on the LOS was embarrassing, and I'll say it again, anyone who blames Ben for this loss has zero understanding of the game of football.

Heck, if there was no holding penalty on the long TD, Ben's grade might have ended up being a B or B+. Even with the INTs. What a difference a couple plays make.

And don't give me this crap about "holding the football too long"..... Half the problem is the pass plays called are too deep and develop too slowly (Arians), and half the time if he did throw on a sack, he would have put it up for grabs. I'd cringe to think what kind of game Eli would have had under such pressure. Or anyone else, for that matter.

I also would have given Tomlin an F, solely for the oversight of not keeping a backup long snapper. This is downright inexcusable.