View topic - Lebeau the problem, or was it the personnel?

[SteelerBrian Profile]

Look, I love Still Mill's articles as much as the next Stillers fan but c'mon. What D coordinator would excel with as many empty uniforms playing defense as the Stillers had this season AND arguably the most dynamic, impactful defensive player in the league missing so many games? I'm not a huge fan OR critic of Lebeau, but I do like the 3-4 as opposed to 4-3, it just requires supremely qualified personnel to function at an efficient level. William Gay, and a shot James Farrior and Deshea Townsend (or Casey Hampton for that matter) just can't hide in the 3-4. Factor in the long-term absence Polamalu and Aaron Smith and I don't think anybody could have gotten much productivity out of that unit this season.
You wanna talk Lebeau into stepping aside quitely with full respect fine, but don't blame him for a markedly undermanned unit in 2009. And if he does step aside, let's hope and pray the Stillers don't install the freeking 'Tampa 2' softee scheme as Tomlin starts to put his stamp on the defense. I don't even want to consider how long it would take to re-tool the defenseive personnel to effectively play that system. How many years would it take just to find two impact, pass rushing defensive ends? Outside LB's in the 3-4 are much easier to find and offer more flexibility, but that's the start of a whole other discussion.

[WillyWonka Profile]

It is definately a personal problem. Ryan Clark never could cover a pass. Ty Carter cant turn his fat neck to look for a ball in pass coverage. Gay is well...... Townsend got a gift from a 3rd string barely better than local High School quarterback on the pick. He is so bad that when he made the start for Gay last game he lasted only a few plays after being exposed. He was then replaced by Gay; thats how bad he is. Ike only had 1 really bad game this year, most just wont throw to him. Our ILB's cant cover a pass. One is too old and the other is too stupid. Combine that with an overwieght washed up nose tackle that only plays half the game, losing your best defensive lineman, losing your best Defensive Back, your defense is gonna suck. It also doesnt help that you have an offensive that cant use any clock, poor Fat Casey never caught his breath.

[dadrfishing Profile]

I agree Labeau was not on the field. His job is to put players in position to make plays. I recall in at least two of the losses, the defensive backs dropping easy interceptions that would have made the difference. Without a star like Palamalu to cover the weaknesses, the defense showed it's age and ability.

[SteelerBrian Profile]

I think Townsend used to be a nice nickel back, but age caught up with him and it was over for him really quickly. I don't mind Ty Carter in a back-up role (and that's where Clark should be too). Would it be crazy to say that most, if not all, of our draft of picks should address the defense? A safety, inside LB's, at least one corner and another D lineman or two would be nice. Cut Farrior and absorb any financial loss that the team put on themselves anyhow, and get some new (talented) young blood out there wearing the Black N Yellow (??!). The offense has more than enough talent to be VERY productive under the right leadership (please, PLEASE replace Arians!). DRAFT DEFENSE

[rick723 Profile]

I think Townsend used to be a nice nickel back, but age caught up with him and it was over for him really quickly. I don't mind Ty Carter in a back-up role (and that's where Clark should be too). Would it be crazy to say that most, if not all, of our draft of picks should address the defense? A safety, inside LB's, at least one corner and another D lineman or two would be nice. Cut Farrior and absorb any financial loss that the team put on themselves anyhow, and get some new (talented) young blood out there wearing the Black N Yellow (??!). The offense has more than enough talent to be VERY productive under the right leadership (please, PLEASE replace Arians!). DRAFT DEFENSE

Townsend was a nickle back when we had Deuane Washington who couldn't find his ass with both hands. It took us three years of screaming to get washington gone. Deshea was a great D back and he did have the first int for any Steeler Corner this year. I do hope we get someone for Gay, Gay is a good nickle though

[stillcello Profile]

I agree that MOST of the problem was with personnel. I mean, was it me or did Townsend seem like he was loafing after some of the plays?!? I know he's slow, but beside the interception, he seems to be jogging after his defender on at least two replays that I saw.

You lose Bryant McFadden, Troy, Aaron...oh, and let's not forget an ineffective and overweight/overmuscled Lamarr Woodley the first half of the season..... I'm sorry, that's enough for me to say that you give Lebeau another year.

If I was Tomlin and would put the fuking hammer down on Hampton and Woodley and come into comp in fuking shape!!.... Hampton is an embarrassment with that damn GUT....I mean, jeez.... give the guy a target weight and stick to it!!!

[Coke Oven Profile]

Well now, don't let Dickey off the hook so easily. Granted there was a drastic fall off in the caliber of personnel that he had to work with. We all recognized that. But he failed to adjust at all. He kept blindly pushing the same scheme that would only work with the best guys on the field. And he'd stand there on the sideline and watch the slaughter. And do nothing. Attitude problem or what?

[HereWeGo Profile]

the problem(s) was/were this :

the departure of bryant mcfadden. i hope to never see william gay in a steelers uniform again. that dude is terrible.

the season-ending injury to aaron smith. losing him was a *huge* loss to the d-line which we saw more-than-usual holes in this season.

and most importantly :

troy polamalu missing 2/3 of the season. him alone being out cost the steelers 3 games. i don't care what anyone says... tyrone carter is a piece of trash.

stop blaming lebeau. he puts the best possible product on the field with the players on the roster. if you want to blame anyone, blame kevin colbert for not having good enough talent deeper on the defensive roster.

[steelandblood Profile]

Well now, don't let Dickey off the hook so easily. Granted there was a drastic fall off in the caliber of personnel that he had to work with. We all recognized that. But he failed to adjust at all. He kept blindly pushing the same scheme that would only work with the best guys on the field. And he'd stand there on the sideline and watch the slaughter. And do nothing. Attitude problem or what?

This sums it up precisely. Dick didn't adjust, *and* the rest of the D didn't remotely come close to stepping up. Losing both Smith and Troy would have cost us, certainly, but even so, this team had no business winning fewer than 11 games this year. Woodley was mostly invisible, and Farrior simply was nowhere to be found when he was supposed to be there. Hampton's just trying to rely on his deadweight now, too. It's LeBeau's schemes in light of the personnel he has to work with, and it's also bigtime guys not stepping up.

I will say this, if we can only get rid of one coordinator, I'd get rid of Arians. The D's problems wouldn't cost us nearly as much if they weren't on the field most of the 2nd half of every game we're in.

[stillgrill Profile]

If fata$$ Alge Crumpler doesn't fall on Troy's knee on opening nite, we're not even evaluating Lebeau. They're probly 11-5 & preparing for the playoffs, and they probly have no more than 2 Fourth Qtr collapses. Anybody who thinks one guy shouldn't have had such an effect is a moron. Troy LED the team in INT's despite missing ELEVEN gms. If Crumpler doesn't crumple Troy, we're Top 5 again in every D category.

[38Steel Profile]

We took hits this year on the injury front with the D, but Lebeaus same old stick I think has been figured out. He needs to reload now has young talent to replace the aging parts of this D, Fox should get more time & Hood. Gay is pure puke.
Although Carter is no Troy I think he played to his potential, not great but servicable. The Tackeling as a whole was bad, It is a Toss here.

[kimo_brah Profile]

DITTOS. Well put.

the problem(s) was/were this :

the departure of bryant mcfadden. i hope to never see william gay in a steelers uniform again. that dude is terrible.

the season-ending injury to aaron smith. losing him was a *huge* loss to the d-line which we saw more-than-usual holes in this season.

and most importantly :

troy polamalu missing 2/3 of the season. him alone being out cost the steelers 3 games. i don't care what anyone says... tyrone carter is a piece of trash.

stop blaming lebeau. he puts the best possible product on the field with the players on the roster. if you want to blame anyone, blame kevin colbert for not having good enough talent deeper on the defensive roster.

[Steelhope Profile]

It is definately a personal problem. Ryan Clark never could cover a pass. Ty Carter cant turn his fat neck to look for a ball in pass coverage. Gay is well...... Townsend got a gift from a 3rd string barely better than local High School quarterback on the pick. He is so bad that when he made the start for Gay last game he lasted only a few plays after being exposed. He was then replaced by Gay; thats how bad he is. Ike only had 1 really bad game this year, most just wont throw to him. Our ILB's cant cover a pass. One is too old and the other is too stupid. Combine that with an overwieght washed up nose tackle that only plays half the game, losing your best defensive lineman, losing your best Defensive Back, your defense is gonna suck. It also doesnt help that you have an offensive that cant use any clock, poor Fat Casey never caught his breath.

personnel !!!....not personal...yeesch

[LambertoCincoOcho Profile]

I thought Dick did a great job considering the talent he had to work with. Troy and Aaron are a big part of what we want to do on defense. Losing those two is equal to losing your starting QB on offense. What concerns me is how the team feels about Burnett and Lewis. Supposedly CB is the easiest to learn of all positions in a 3-4.

[mckeesrockstheburg Profile]

I will say this, if we can only get rid of one coordinator, I'd get rid of Arians. The D's problems wouldn't cost us nearly as much if they weren't on the field most of the 2nd half of every game we're in

BINGO!!!! Movin' the chains, movin' the chains. That is what it is all about. Scoring in 15 seconds is exciting but it is a "feast or famine" gamble. You will lose more than win this bet. Other guys get paid too. Keep the ball, keep a D off-balance, short passes, quick slants, quick out routes, move the ball, screens and some nice plowing work by Mendy. We have the personnel, WE DON'T HAVE AN OC, but, The one we have is OFFENSIVE!

[Field General Ben Profile]

I thought Dick did a great job considering the talent he had to work with. Troy and Aaron are a big part of what we want to do on defense. Losing those two is equal to losing your starting QB on offense. What concerns me is how the team feels about Burnett and Lewis. Supposedly CB is the easiest to learn of all positions in a 3-4.

I think you've inadvertently hit on one of LeBeau's deficiencies in mentioning Burnett and Lewis. He refuses to play the kids when it's apparent that the vets he has playing are shit (Carter, Gay, Ratliff, Farrior). And by the way, why is the depth shit? Who is evaluating?